Racing Point RP20

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
holeindalip
holeindalip
14
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:16 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:35 am


It seams not all the teams are against what 'Tracing point' have done, it may just be 'the party line' for some


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tost ... =widget-22


included from Tost (who is currently hiding from Marco)

“I know all the F1 purists say, ‘Ah, we must be a constructor. Every team must design everything in-house.’ The question is, and you know the engineers are saying this, but how do you finance everything?

“Because we reached such a high level on the technical side, the top teams have such a fantastic infrastructure. If someone wants to come into F1 – even the teams which are in F1, if they want to catch up – this is very difficult, and nearly impossible.

“And you spend millions. And I’m just asking, what for? I’m asking, why does every team have to have its own wind tunnel, has to have its own CFD, has to have 500-600 employees?...
>>>>>>
Personally I still think back to the days when we came to F1 with Toro Rosso and we just got a one-year-old car from Red Bull Technology, and we could race with a third of the money.”
And I 100% agree with Tost. Nothing wrong with running a 1 year old car for a 1/3 of the cost. Rp will be effectively stuck with a 2 year old car next year before new regulations kick in for 2022. And they are complaining about getting beat this year that’s the only reason they are protesting and upset with the outcome......
Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
And which parts are non listed?

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
197
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

Big Tea wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:46 pm
Big Tea wrote: Just a small point, but an essential one. The ruling by FIA is clear in regards to the illegality of the RBD’

No, they are completely legal or would be foul of the tec regs and slam dunk, the car can not be raced.
They are legal, it is the design process that is in question. Nit picking yes, but that is what the whole dispute is about
Agreed, the RBD’s comply with the “Technical Regulations”, but they were found non-compliant under the “Sport Regulations” (therefore the 15 point penalty).

It’s an interesting case for sure.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It seams not all the teams are against what 'Tracing point' have done, it may just be 'the party line' for some


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tost ... =widget-22


included from Tost (who is currently hiding from Marco)

“I know all the F1 purists say, ‘Ah, we must be a constructor. Every team must design everything in-house.’ The question is, and you know the engineers are saying this, but how do you finance everything?

“Because we reached such a high level on the technical side, the top teams have such a fantastic infrastructure. If someone wants to come into F1 – even the teams which are in F1, if they want to catch up – this is very difficult, and nearly impossible.

“And you spend millions. And I’m just asking, what for? I’m asking, why does every team have to have its own wind tunnel, has to have its own CFD, has to have 500-600 employees?...
>>>>>>
Personally I still think back to the days when we came to F1 with Toro Rosso and we just got a one-year-old car from Red Bull Technology, and we could race with a third of the money.”
Well, not surprised for Tost to be in favor of the RP’s strategy since they could have an RB16 next year if allowed.

He is correct in regards to the disparity between teams, which is drive by the massive difference in budgets... But that is already been addressed with he budget cap starting next year.

Also, if we consider the rate of evolution and development in F1, the proposal for customer teams using previous year cars will definitely create a bigger 2 tier championship... With the customer teams always one year behind the “Constructors”.

It will be even more problematic when we talk about clear B-Teams (Alfa Tauri and Alpha Romeo), where their resources could be used to assist the A-Teams... If the B-Teams aren’t designing their own cars and just using the A-Teams cars, the A-Teams can use the resources from the B-Teams to help them develop their own cars, therefore creating an advantage for those with more than one team and in a way circumventing the budget cap.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

the EDGE
the EDGE
77
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:28 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:16 pm


And I 100% agree with Tost. Nothing wrong with running a 1 year old car for a 1/3 of the cost. Rp will be effectively stuck with a 2 year old car next year before new regulations kick in for 2022. And they are complaining about getting beat this year that’s the only reason they are protesting and upset with the outcome......
Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
And which parts are non listed?
The listed parts AFAIK are The chassis & external aero parts Including brake ducks. Baring the chassis all of these elements can continue to be developed across 2020/2021

RP will be allowed to alter their chassis to accommodate 2020 Merc parts as they see fit, token free, when nobody else will be allowed

So therefore RP will have the most developed car on the grid next year... unless you know different?

User avatar
Big Tea
135
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:46 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:28 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm


Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
And which parts are non listed?
The listed parts AFAIK are The chassis & external aero parts Including brake ducks. Baring the chassis all of these elements can continue to be developed across 2020/2021

RP will be allowed to alter their chassis to accommodate 2020 Merc parts as they see fit, token free, when nobody else will be allowed

So therefore RP will have the most developed car on the grid next year... unless you know different?
Do Mclaren not get something similar? And affa and Haas maybe?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

the EDGE
the EDGE
77
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:06 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:46 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:28 pm


And which parts are non listed?
The listed parts AFAIK are The chassis & external aero parts Including brake ducks. Baring the chassis all of these elements can continue to be developed across 2020/2021

RP will be allowed to alter their chassis to accommodate 2020 Merc parts as they see fit, token free, when nobody else will be allowed

So therefore RP will have the most developed car on the grid next year... unless you know different?
Do Mclaren not get something similar? And affa and Haas maybe?
I don’t know about hass, I believe you can only update the parts your already using, so probably not to the extent RP can

McLaren do not, they have to use their tokens up to fit Merc PU & are not happy about it. They are lobbying FIA to even out the situation, but it’s not looking hopeful for them

Edit...

The Race have just written an article about it... https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-othe ... -disputed/

Mchamilton
Mchamilton
8
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:28 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:16 pm


And I 100% agree with Tost. Nothing wrong with running a 1 year old car for a 1/3 of the cost. Rp will be effectively stuck with a 2 year old car next year before new regulations kick in for 2022. And they are complaining about getting beat this year that’s the only reason they are protesting and upset with the outcome......
Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
And which parts are non listed?
RP will upgrade to the 2020 merc gearbox and rear suspension set up. As well as mercs 2020 front suspension.

Raleigh
Raleigh
73
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

Short version, teams that are currently running purchased 2019 spec non-listed components (front/rear suspension, gearbox) can update to 2020 spec without needing to use development tokens.

So that's Racing Point and Alpha Tauri. Haas and Alfa Romeo are already running 2020 spec so no free upgrades.

holeindalip
holeindalip
14
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:16 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:35 am


It seams not all the teams are against what 'Tracing point' have done, it may just be 'the party line' for some


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tost ... =widget-22


included from Tost (who is currently hiding from Marco)

“I know all the F1 purists say, ‘Ah, we must be a constructor. Every team must design everything in-house.’ The question is, and you know the engineers are saying this, but how do you finance everything?

“Because we reached such a high level on the technical side, the top teams have such a fantastic infrastructure. If someone wants to come into F1 – even the teams which are in F1, if they want to catch up – this is very difficult, and nearly impossible.

“And you spend millions. And I’m just asking, what for? I’m asking, why does every team have to have its own wind tunnel, has to have its own CFD, has to have 500-600 employees?...
>>>>>>
Personally I still think back to the days when we came to F1 with Toro Rosso and we just got a one-year-old car from Red Bull Technology, and we could race with a third of the money.”
And I 100% agree with Tost. Nothing wrong with running a 1 year old car for a 1/3 of the cost. Rp will be effectively stuck with a 2 year old car next year before new regulations kick in for 2022. And they are complaining about getting beat this year that’s the only reason they are protesting and upset with the outcome......
Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
Yes but they will have 2 year old aero with updated suspension , I don’t see them changing too much aero with the token system ...

ispano6
ispano6
251
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

Raleigh wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:06 pm
Short version, teams that are currently running purchased 2019 spec non-listed components (front/rear suspension, gearbox) can update to 2020 spec without needing to use development tokens.

So that's Racing Point and Alpha Tauri. Haas and Alfa Romeo are already running 2020 spec so no free upgrades.
Yep, Alpha Tauri will also have free upgrades so I expect RP and AT move up the midfield.

the EDGE
the EDGE
77
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

holeindalip wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:16 pm


And I 100% agree with Tost. Nothing wrong with running a 1 year old car for a 1/3 of the cost. Rp will be effectively stuck with a 2 year old car next year before new regulations kick in for 2022. And they are complaining about getting beat this year that’s the only reason they are protesting and upset with the outcome......
Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
Yes but they will have 2 year old aero with updated suspension , I don’t see them changing too much aero with the token system ...
Except... ‘ Development has not been banned outright, with surface-area aerodynamics allowed to be improved.’

https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key- ... -answered/

holeindalip
holeindalip
14
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:06 am
holeindalip wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:26 pm


Actually RP get a ‘golden ticket’ to upgrade their car next year to accommodate 2020 non-listed Merc parts in anyway they want, token free

So their car will be more developed than anyones
Yes but they will have 2 year old aero with updated suspension , I don’t see them changing too much aero with the token system ...
Except... ‘ Development has not been banned outright, with surface-area aerodynamics allowed to be improved.’

https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key- ... -answered/
I understand that, I’m saying with the token system they aren’t going to show up with a totally revamped aero philosophy, essentially just building on the w10 with w11 suspension updates....

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
197
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

holeindalip wrote:
the EDGE wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:06 am
holeindalip wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:44 am
Yes but they will have 2 year old aero with updated suspension , I don’t see them changing too much aero with the token system ...
Except... ‘ Development has not been banned outright, with surface-area aerodynamics allowed to be improved.’

https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key- ... -answered/
I understand that, I’m saying with the token system they aren’t going to show up with a totally revamped aero philosophy, essentially just building on the w10 with w11 suspension updates....
RP will show with a W11 next year


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

holeindalip
holeindalip
14
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

SmallSoldier wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:42 pm
holeindalip wrote:
the EDGE wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:06 am


Except... ‘ Development has not been banned outright, with surface-area aerodynamics allowed to be improved.’

https://the-race.com/formula-1/six-key- ... -answered/
I understand that, I’m saying with the token system they aren’t going to show up with a totally revamped aero philosophy, essentially just building on the w10 with w11 suspension updates....
Aston Martin will show with a W11 next year


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Fixed it

gshevlin
gshevlin
22
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

I thought that F1 would have learned from the mistakes they made with the engine token system, but I guess not.
These solutions never work. Nobody is happy, and it undermines the level of trust that is badly needed in these uncertain times.

User avatar
Racer X
10
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:04 pm

Re: Racing Point RP20

Post

I hope we get to see some pictures this week early since I'm curious if they made a special Spa package. Which was something mentioned by some.
SENNA