Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

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hollus
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Well, we’ve just had a very good effort to put numbers into it.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

djones
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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WDC
Wins
Poles

Those are the only 3 things anybody really cares about. Not percentages, ratios, variables or anything else.

Hamilton is going to set the benchmark so high it will likely never be beaten in "Formula 1". I say that because in the years it will take somebody to catch up its likely F1 as we know it will no longer exist.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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hollus wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:07 pm
Well, we’ve just had a very good effort to put numbers into it.
Yup, and they will/have just be instantly dismissed by whoever doesn't like what they say.

Djones is right. 99% of people will only care about or even see the headline numbers that he's given. At a pinch maybe race win or pole percentage.

Schumacher fans used to cite them as proof of him being the GOAT, Schumacher detractors used to argue reasons why the numbers alone didn't make him the GOAT. Now ironically as Hamilton passes Schumacher in basically all categories, the same people who used to cite the numbers to offer proof will try and argue reasons why they count for Schumacher but not for Hamilton. It's mad.

If you went by the numbers for Schumacher, you have to do the same for Hamilton. Both had advantageous situations for most of their careers in order to get to those numbers, but both fully earned and deserved the situations (and luck- yes luck for both of them) they got themselves into by being absolutely outstanding drivers worthy of all the accolades thrown at them.

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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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djones wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:10 pm
WDC
Wins
Poles

Those are the only 3 things anybody really cares about. Not percentages, ratios, variables or anything else.

Hamilton is going to set the benchmark so high it will likely never be beaten in "Formula 1". I say that because in the years it will take somebody to catch up its likely F1 as we know it will no longer exist.
I am sure people would have said the same when Clark (qualifying) and Fangio (WDC) created those records. It was said when Schumacher bettered those records and people will say this when Hamilton will create them. Records are meant to be broken and there will be an era where another driver who would better them! Regardless of whichever form the F1 is going to be in future, there will be someone who will break that. It happens in all sports.
Drivers are coming at far younger age than ever before and with ever improving fitness methodologies, they would stay longer in the sport. That means they will have longer duration to go for these records.
Seasons are getting longer and longer with more races in a single season, it gives opportunity to win more races if a driver possesses a dominant machine.
Ever improving technologies will build even highly reliable machines, improving race finish percentages, yielding better opportunities to win.
Cars and regulations have constantly changed since it started back in 50s, but it was F1 back then and it is F1 now and will always be F1, regardless of how the regulations, races, machines look like in future. A 15 time WDC in 2040 or 50 or 60 or 2090, would still be recognized as an all time great F1 WDC.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are they staying longer though? Maybe the 00's was the youngest average retiring age. In the 90's you had Prost and Mansell both champions at 38 and 39yrs old. In the 80's you had Lauda and Piquet both 35yrs old as champions . In the 70's Mario was 38 and Stewart was 34 as champions. In the 60's Brabham was 40yrs old as champion, and 50's saw Fangio champion at 46yrs old and Farina 43 as a champion. Looking at this trend the drivers are not winning as old as they were. So careers may be starting earlier, but they are ending earlier still. In the 10's Hamilton was the oldest champion at 34. Schumacher was 35, so the previous record had the youngest champion ages (if that makes sense).
It looks like we could be starting this decade with a 35yr old champion, but I think after Lewis goes, the champions age will be no older than 24/25yrs old.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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sosic2121 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:49 pm

So, if Lewis was as good as Michael he would have already had 109 wins!? :wtf: :wtf:

Wow, that's incredible. Thank you for pointing that.
Not exactly.

Performance unchanged for both.
Schumacher given longer seasons, and Hamilton given number 2 teammates.

Schumacher would be 101 and Hamilton would be on 109.

If we are conservative, we could give Hamilton half of the potential "Number 2 handout" wins and he would be at 98 wins currently. So it would be 3 wins to beat the hypothetical 101 win MSC record. not far from the 4 he needs today. So surprisingly it averages out somehow.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:32 pm
djones wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:10 pm
WDC
Wins
Poles

Those are the only 3 things anybody really cares about. Not percentages, ratios, variables or anything else.

Hamilton is going to set the benchmark so high it will likely never be beaten in "Formula 1". I say that because in the years it will take somebody to catch up its likely F1 as we know it will no longer exist.
I am sure people would have said the same when Clark (qualifying) and Fangio (WDC) created those records. It was said when Schumacher bettered those records and people will say this when Hamilton will create them. Records are meant to be broken and there will be an era where another driver who would better them! Regardless of whichever form the F1 is going to be in future, there will be someone who will break that. It happens in all sports.
Drivers are coming at far younger age than ever before and with ever improving fitness methodologies, they would stay longer in the sport. That means they will have longer duration to go for these records.
Seasons are getting longer and longer with more races in a single season, it gives opportunity to win more races if a driver possesses a dominant machine.
Ever improving technologies will build even highly reliable machines, improving race finish percentages, yielding better opportunities to win.
Cars and regulations have constantly changed since it started back in 50s, but it was F1 back then and it is F1 now and will always be F1, regardless of how the regulations, races, machines look like in future. A 15 time WDC in 2040 or 50 or 60 or 2090, would still be recognized as an all time great F1 WDC.
Drivers always seem to top out after a certain number of seasons. Entering young may not offer loner careers as we may believe. Sometimes sportsmen simply burn out. And if they don't burn out, another hot shot enters the market and the team boss fires the incumbent for a "fresh start" (see Vettel Ferrari). It is hard to predict. Even for Max he is 6 years in it. When will his motivation begin to fade? Will he have to start doing all sorts of activities like Kimi and Hamilton to keep himself fresh? Perhaps a young whippersnapper comes along. George Russel and Max in Mercedes? Or maybe Hamilton dominates into the decade and sets the bar so out there, it will be like Usain Bolt's 9.58. A make believe number that you'll need a rocket-ship to reach it.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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djones wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:10 pm
WDC
Wins
Poles

Those are the only 3 things anybody really cares about. Not percentages, ratios, variables or anything else.

Hamilton is going to set the benchmark so high it will likely never be beaten in "Formula 1". I say that because in the years it will take somebody to catch up its likely F1 as we know it will no longer exist.
I think percentages are meaningful although there does need to be a reasonable number of races to account for - some drivers have great numbers because they only did a few races - notably those who did the Indy 500. Taking that in to account, Fangio's percentages are amazing and extremely unlikely to be beaten.

He won 46% of the races he entered. Hamilton's on 34% along with Clark. Michael's on 29% but that's down to his return years which were not fruitful.

Fangio took 55% of the poles in races he competed in. Clark took 45%, Hamilton's on 36%. Senna was 40%. Michael on 22% (same caveat as before).

Fangio took 67% podium finishes, Hamilton's just under 61%.

Some will, quite rightly, point out that modern cars are very reliable making finishing easier. But the corollary is that it's some feat to be able to maintain the performances over many years. Fangio did 52 races over 7 seasons (with 3 in 1958 which was an incomplete season for him), Hamilton's done nearly 260 races in 13.5 seasons (in his 14th now).

I still rate Fangio as the all time GOAT, but you can't take away the performances of the likes of Hamilton and Schumacher who have performed at a very high level for so many years. Doubtless Senna and Clark would have had more successes had they not died young. Their own performances in the years they did race is testament to their right to be in the pantheon of greats.

There is a pantheon of greats. Those who reside there have the poles, wins and titles to prove they belong there. Anything else is just personal opinion.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 pm
Question for the Hamilton fanatics.

Would you sooner see Hamilton retire after winning the title and knowingly giving up on a potential extra title or see him leave after sticking around long enough until someone beats him in to retirement?
Yes, Schumachers records will be broken.

Oh sorry, I was replying to the actual topic,
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:58 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 pm
Question for the Hamilton fanatics.

Would you sooner see Hamilton retire after winning the title and knowingly giving up on a potential extra title or see him leave after sticking around long enough until someone beats him in to retirement?
Yes, Schumachers records will be broken.

Oh sorry, I was replying to the actual topic,


It was a genuine question to any sensible Hamilton fans.

We can see how you always stick to the topic so please get off your high horse.

If you don't like the question don't answer it really is that simple. 👍

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dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:03 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:58 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 pm
Question for the Hamilton fanatics.

Would you sooner see Hamilton retire after winning the title and knowingly giving up on a potential extra title or see him leave after sticking around long enough until someone beats him in to retirement?
Yes, Schumachers records will be broken.

Oh sorry, I was replying to the actual topic, instead of answering a question where you are clearly trying to troll about Lewis.


It was a genuine question to any sensible Hamilton fans.

We can see how you always stick to the topic so please get off your high horse.

If you don't like the question don't answer it really is that simple. 👍
perhaps, you could just ask a question without the need for special qualifiers.

"Question for the Hamilton fanatics" & "sensible Hamilton fans" reads a lot like an attempt at trolling.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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dans79 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:26 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:03 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:58 pm


Yes, Schumachers records will be broken.

Oh sorry, I was replying to the actual topic, instead of answering a question where you are clearly trying to troll about Lewis.


It was a genuine question to any sensible Hamilton fans.

We can see how you always stick to the topic so please get off your high horse.

If you don't like the question don't answer it really is that simple. 👍
perhaps, you could just ask a question without the need for special qualifiers.

"Question for the Hamilton fanatics" & "sensible Hamilton fans" reads a lot like an attempt at trolling.
Should I have shortened fanatics to fans?

No in all seriousness what would you prefer?

I would sooner leave at the top tbh but then it would rile me seeing someone else when the title in a Mercedes.

I do think I could handle that better than seeing him bested by someone fair and square.

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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:44 pm
dans79 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:26 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:03 pm




It was a genuine question to any sensible Hamilton fans.

We can see how you always stick to the topic so please get off your high horse.

If you don't like the question don't answer it really is that simple. 👍
perhaps, you could just ask a question without the need for special qualifiers.

"Question for the Hamilton fanatics" & "sensible Hamilton fans" reads a lot like an attempt at trolling.
Should I have shortened fanatics to fans?

No in all seriousness what would you prefer?

I would sooner leave at the top tbh but then it would rile me seeing someone else when the title in a Mercedes.

I do think I could handle that better than seeing him bested by someone fair and square.
concidering how he's been replying too in the Merc thread, the haterism/trolling really is obvious.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:11 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:44 pm
dans79 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:26 pm


perhaps, you could just ask a question without the need for special qualifiers.

"Question for the Hamilton fanatics" & "sensible Hamilton fans" reads a lot like an attempt at trolling.
Should I have shortened fanatics to fans?

No in all seriousness what would you prefer?

I would sooner leave at the top tbh but then it would rile me seeing someone else when the title in a Mercedes.

I do think I could handle that better than seeing him bested by someone fair and square.
concidering how he's been replying too in the Merc thread, the haterism/trolling really is obvious.
Thanks, yes he has been tbh but I'm not one to point it out.

NoDivergence
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:03 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:58 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:37 pm
Question for the Hamilton fanatics.

Would you sooner see Hamilton retire after winning the title and knowingly giving up on a potential extra title or see him leave after sticking around long enough until someone beats him in to retirement?
Yes, Schumachers records will be broken.

Oh sorry, I was replying to the actual topic,


It was a genuine question to any sensible Hamilton fans.

We can see how you always stick to the topic so please get off your high horse.

If you don't like the question don't answer it really is that simple. 👍
How about option C where he retires when he's bored of winning 10 WDCs in a row and still leaves on a high?