2020 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, August 28 - 30

[ENGINE TUNER]

Red Bull fans seems to be putting all their eggs of hope in the basket of "party mode" ban (or is it so?). I am afraid such a thought process would be shocked in Monza. Every manufacturer would have to find a compromise between max power and it's endurance. So, everybody is going to be hit.

Yes. That is true. Everybody will be hit. Monza is a quite specific track, and the qualy itself is an almost laughable matter thesevdays. Look what happened last year. But, without the additional power mercedes produces as opposed to Honda in strat 2 I think they will loose more then 1 hundrest of a second. If so Max would have qualified P2 here in Spa.

Did Max not complain that he run out of party mode a few seconds early? It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

Nothing will change, there will still be an overtake button. The button will be programmed to deploy ultra maximum power, and we will watch drivers pressing a button during their qually lap lap rather than turning a switch before it. Actually there will still be a switch turn before the qually lap from harvest mode to race mode, but now buttons will be pressed before long straights on the qually lap, big whoop ti do.

[Mchamilton]

The Hamilton interview I mentioned earlier, he was being candid yes but shouldn't be making those comments IMO.

Why shouldn't he? He's not saying anything that isn't true.

[Sieper]

Red Bull fans seems to be putting all their eggs of hope in the basket of "party mode" ban (or is it so?). I am afraid such a thought process would be shocked in Monza. Every manufacturer would have to find a compromise between max power and it's endurance. So, everybody is going to be hit.

Yes. That is true. Everybody will be hit. Monza is a quite specific track, and the qualy itself is an almost laughable matter thesevdays. Look what happened last year. But, without the additional power mercedes produces as opposed to Honda in strat 2 I think they will loose more then 1 hundrest of a second. If so Max would have qualified P2 here in Spa.

That’s a bit of a logical fallacy.

As Moore77 said, we don’t yet know who is going to lose more relative to the other.

Second, the gap between Bottas and Max in qualifying at Spa could’ve been much different if Mercedes had chosen a different setup, or opted to go with a tow in qualifying.

Why? Mercedes had been making a bigger step in every Q session then Honda. And second did not happen did it? That actually IS a fallacy.

[Sieper]

Red Bull fans seems to be putting all their eggs of hope in the basket of "party mode" ban (or is it so?). I am afraid such a thought process would be shocked in Monza. Every manufacturer would have to find a compromise between max power and it's endurance. So, everybody is going to be hit.

Yes. That is true. Everybody will be hit. Monza is a quite specific track, and the qualy itself is an almost laughable matter thesevdays. Look what happened last year. But, without the additional power mercedes produces as opposed to Honda in strat 2 I think they will loose more then 1 hundrest of a second. If so Max would have qualified P2 here in Spa.

Did Max not complain that he run out of party mode a few seconds early? It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

He ran out of ERS energy.

[Sieper]

Who knows, what if loosing party mode will really have an effect. Plus RBR is still working to improve the car race by race. Certainly still a gap there but without party mode Max would have started P2 here almost certainly.

Mercedes will be even stronger. Their engine is the most impervious to damage judging by their high power Qualy mode. When you translate this durability downwards it inversely squares with the power level. They will have a good deal amount of power to use in the race after this. Riding off into the sunset will be the norm now.

In the race possibly a bit more. But I don’t expect that in qualy. Monza is a a bit of an outlier but let’s see what happens. 7 more days and we have our first data.

[Moore77]

Yes. That is true. Everybody will be hit. Monza is a quite specific track, and the qualy itself is an almost laughable matter thesevdays. Look what happened last year. But, without the additional power mercedes produces as opposed to Honda in strat 2 I think they will loose more then 1 hundrest of a second. If so Max would have qualified P2 here in Spa.

Did Max not complain that he run out of party mode a few seconds early? It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

He ran out of ERS energy.

Some guy who teaches engineering here said, Max did not run out of ERS energy, he simply used it early. There is a difference and its called engineering.

[Big Tea]

Yes. That is true. Everybody will be hit. Monza is a quite specific track, and the qualy itself is an almost laughable matter thesevdays. Look what happened last year. But, without the additional power mercedes produces as opposed to Honda in strat 2 I think they will loose more then 1 hundrest of a second. If so Max would have qualified P2 here in Spa.

Did Max not complain that he run out of party mode a few seconds early? It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

He ran out of ERS energy.

Which is scheduled by qualli settings.

[Wouter]

It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

Yamamoto about the "Party mode":

"Like Asaki said, we have our own party mode.
But if MB is a party, then ours is a small buffet in Utsunomiya.

[Sieper]

Same thing, he used it (actually, it is the software programming on When and where you use the ERS most) earlier in the lap and so it was gone in the end (or wherever that was when he ran out). It is Just a question of mapping. Lewis had a moment where he had no ERS in the race today as well. Things happen. Programming can be done more accurate and it is also a question in itself spending energy where is the most efficient. That is where they have the teams of engineers for.

[Sieper]

Did Max not complain that he run out of party mode a few seconds early? It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

He ran out of ERS energy.

Which is scheduled by qualli settings.

It is mapping yes.

[zibby43]

Yes. That is true. Everybody will be hit. Monza is a quite specific track, and the qualy itself is an almost laughable matter thesevdays. Look what happened last year. But, without the additional power mercedes produces as opposed to Honda in strat 2 I think they will loose more then 1 hundrest of a second. If so Max would have qualified P2 here in Spa.

That’s a bit of a logical fallacy.

As Moore77 said, we don’t yet know who is going to lose more relative to the other.

Second, the gap between Bottas and Max in qualifying at Spa could’ve been much different if Mercedes had chosen a different setup, or opted to go with a tow in qualifying.

Why? Mercedes had been making a bigger step in every Q session then Honda. And second did not happen did it? That actually IS a fallacy.

Not trying to be hostile, so no need for the all caps.

Steps in qualifying aren’t down solely to engine modes. How much a team decides to take out of its tires is a big factor. How much fuel a team carries is another. Wasn’t the gap to Verstappen relatively similar in Q2 and Q3 in Spa? Between 5-6 tenths?

There are so many variables, which is why I don’t like to speculate on the matter, other than to acknowledge that Merc has the stronger PU, and thus the ability to add more performance on the race side. That robustness is also what may enable them to lose very little on the quali side, and gain quite a bit in race trim.

Merc don’t seem worried. And Verstappen doesn’t think it’s going to change the competitive order relative to the top 2.

Hamilton went out in clean air with no tow, Merc ran much more downforce, and Verstappen did have a tow. Those variables affect lap time.

In your hypothetical, you assume Merc would’ve chosen the same setup had they had access to less power. Second, it assumes that RB would be unaffected. Third, it assumes that was Bottas’ best possible lap, irrespective of setup/tow, etc.

Hope that makes sense.

[zibby43]

Did Max not complain that he run out of party mode a few seconds early? It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

He ran out of ERS energy.

Some guy who teaches engineering here said, Max did not run out of ERS energy, he simply used it early. There is a difference and its called engineering.

Correct. Another way of putting it: Max deployed the energy earlier in the lap where it would’ve had a more significant positive effect on lap time.

It wasn’t a matter of running out. It was a matter of where it was used.

Max himself acknowledged this in the post-quali presser.

[siskue2005]

The Hamilton interview I mentioned earlier, he was being candid yes but shouldn't be making those comments IMO.

Why shouldn't he? He's not saying anything that isn't true.

What Lewis said is absolutely correct

Before the first SC at lap 15 Max was 5 sec behind Lewis, whereas Albon was 15 seconds off Lewis by that time.
Albon was pretty poor today on race pace, he was overtaken by renault at the start and got lucky to jump one during the pitstop, but got mauled by Renault and a Mclaren in the end.

We need to put some one in that car who can push Max like Bottas does to Lewis, otherwise it is just a waste of space.

[siskue2005]

It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

Yamamoto about the "Party mode":

"Like Asaki said, we have our own party mode.
But if MB is a party, then ours is a small buffet in Utsunomiya.

Again, there is NO BAN on Qualy Party mods

There is only ban on changing modes from qualy to race

If Merc can run their race in Start 2 or 3 in both session then they can do it Legally

Mercedes can also run a Medium sized Buffet mode in qualy and race
Where as Redbull wont even be able to run small buffet in Utsunomiya mode qualy and race

[ENGINE TUNER]

It is not just Merc who lose qualli mode, what ever they call it Honda have it too, and will lose it.

Yamamoto about the "Party mode":

"Like Asaki said, we have our own party mode.
But if MB is a party, then ours is a small buffet in Utsunomiya.

Again, there is NO BAN on Qualy Party mods

There is only ban on changing modes from qualy to race

If Merc can run their race in Start 2 or 3 in both session then they will can do it Legally

Mercedes can also run a Medium sized Buffet mode in qualy and race
Where as Redbull wont even be able to run small buffet in Utsunomiya mode qualy and race

Without a ban on the overtake button nothing will change at all. No, the FIA should not ban the overtake button.