I think that's an awesome idea.
People might create 1 lap wonder cars.
And then explode in the race.
Or the slower cars, might build up many points through slow consistency.
It would put more emphasis on the driver bottling it or not in a lap.
I think that's an awesome idea.
Go ask Briatore and Piquet Jnr about racing cleanly and not causing crashes on purpose.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:50
Of course if you DNF in the qualifying race you will start the Grand Prux last, so it is in everyone's interests to race clean and fair in the qualifying "heat".
If F2 cars are good enough for F2 and produce good racing, there is no reason why F2 cars aren't good enough for F1.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:38
If reverse grid is good enough for F2 and produces fantastic close racing action, there is NO reason it cannot be good enough for F1! It could be a lot of fun indeed, and is worth a try for selected races IMO.
According to Andreas Seidl, the delta needed for an overtake was 1.5 seconds at Monza, so the championship order will pretty much dictate the race order, especially with both engine modes and tyre variables taken away.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:38Session 4: The qualifying race. A race on Saturday of 155km, with a grid set by the reverse of the championship order. NO points are paid. You may use one compound, i.e., no pitstops for leaders to easily drop back and hot lap to an undercut.
This would be valid thinking if it was a one race championship. If it's a multi-race championship including tracks with varying degrees of overtaking difficulty, then teams will game the season as a whole. There's no harm starting behind your slower competitors at China. There's barely any point racing if you aren't on Pole in Monaco, Australia, etc and, apparently, Monza. Still, it will be good to see Williams / Haas / etc guaranteed at least one race win every season. I also suspect the championship leaders will just keep taking new PU parts on those races where overtaking during the qualifying race is basically impossible.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:38Session 5: The Grand Prix of 305km which awards points. The grid is set by the results of the qualifying race. You must use two compounds in a dry race.
There will be no "gamesmanship" as it is your best interests to finish AS HIGH AS POSSIBLE in the qualifying race. There is no incentive to finish lower than possible... It should be maximum attack with clean, fair racing.
F1 is not F2. The aero wake issue seems to be on a different scale.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:38If reverse grid is good enough for F2 and produces fantastic close racing action, there is NO reason it cannot be good enough for F1! It could be a lot of fun indeed, and is worth a try for selected races IMO.
It would also bring up some interesting strategies with some drivers opting for race pace while others get their car perfected for qualifying.Glyn wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 15:27I think that's an awesome idea.
People might create 1 lap wonder cars.
And then explode in the race.
Or the slower cars, might build up many points through slow consistency.
It would put more emphasis on the driver bottling it or not in a lap.
So then you'll get all the drivers too afraid to make anything but the safest of overtakes for fear of their cars getting damaged or DNFing- particularly those with championship aspirations, while those at the front who have absolutely nothing to lose and can partake in some really 'robust' defensive driving to keep their positions or some absolute divebombs, knowing that no-one is going to risk contact in what essentially will be a melee.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:50Reverse grid qualifying races are to set the grid, they are not for points. It is a replacement for time trial qualifying.
Of course if you DNF in the qualifying race you will start the Grand Prux last, so it is in everyone's interests to race clean and fair in the qualifying "heat".
Absolutely. I mean would it really be that hard for example for an AT or the RBR #2 car to innocently tangle with a Mercedes and- oops- pop it out of the race and screw up it's Sunday? Collateral damage to the car that does it, but it gives RBR #1 car a HUGE advantage.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 15:30Go ask Briatore and Piquet Jnr about racing cleanly and not causing crashes on purpose.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:50
Of course if you DNF in the qualifying race you will start the Grand Prux last, so it is in everyone's interests to race clean and fair in the qualifying "heat".
If it's tried this year, it must be after the championships have been decided. Anything else is just an obvious attempt to prevent a certain team and driver from succeeding. I wouldn't be surprised to see that ending in court.El Scorchio wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 16:00
I'm not against it being tried as a one off experiment (and Bahrain 2 is probably the best opportunity) but it's all a bit emperor's new clothes and I think a bunch of (possibly not anticipated) flaws and problems will be revealed with it, and it won't last long.
I think that's their intention though, they want to see fresh new winners whilst giving us plenty of excitement.Diesel wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 16:27I think it's worth trying as some sort of exhibition that doesn't affect the championship, just to see what happens, but I doubt it would have the effect they think it will. Hamilton at the back of the pack at Monza was able to make progress because he was a fast car amongst slower cars. Literally reversing the grid will put all of the fast cars at the back, and they will be too busy fighting amongst each other to make any real progress. The Pirelli tyres won't allow the cars to run flat out for a sprint race without pit stops, they just aren't capable of doing that, so after the initial laps the tyres will degrade and the result will probably be set. And lets not mention the fact there is likely to be a whole ton of wheel banging and hard racing, which will cause lots of investigations and penalties from the FIA as this year they seem to be penalising everything.
Or to add an alternative, what if Max is stuck in 20th behind Bottas in 19th, who can then just hold him up and keep him there, and completely ruin his weekend while Hamilton can just blitz through as much of the field as possible and start with a huge advantage in the feature race?El Scorchio wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 16:03Absolutely. I mean would it really be that hard for example for an AT or the RBR #2 car to innocently tangle with a Mercedes and- oops- pop it out of the race and screw up it's Sunday? Collateral damage to the car that does it, but it gives RBR #1 car a HUGE advantage.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 15:30Go ask Briatore and Piquet Jnr about racing cleanly and not causing crashes on purpose.JordanMugen wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 14:50
Of course if you DNF in the qualifying race you will start the Grand Prux last, so it is in everyone's interests to race clean and fair in the qualifying "heat".
Is this 'our' Bottas that will do this? I see a flaw in your planEl Scorchio wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 16:40Or to add an alternative, what if Max is stuck in 20th behind Bottas in 19th, who can then just hold him up and keep him there, and completely ruin his weekend while Hamilton can just blitz through as much of the field as possible and start with a huge advantage in the feature race?El Scorchio wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 16:03Absolutely. I mean would it really be that hard for example for an AT or the RBR #2 car to innocently tangle with a Mercedes and- oops- pop it out of the race and screw up it's Sunday? Collateral damage to the car that does it, but it gives RBR #1 car a HUGE advantage.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 15:30
Go ask Briatore and Piquet Jnr about racing cleanly and not causing crashes on purpose.
I think under this system you could really see teams adopting a very clear #1 and #2 driver strategy from the outset as far as WDC is concerned.
Yup, and because it's a race you can hardly penalise people for holding another car up. My view is they should setup some non-championship races and test some of these ideas out, ideally more than once to see what actually happens. I do think F1 should be about the best drivers and the best cars winning, if we just want random winners every weekend why not just put all the driver names in a hat and pull them out randomly to decide the result?El Scorchio wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 16:40Or to add an alternative, what if Max is stuck in 20th behind Bottas in 19th, who can then just hold him up and keep him there, and completely ruin his weekend while Hamilton can just blitz through as much of the field as possible and start with a huge advantage in the feature race?
I think under this system you could really see teams adopting a very clear #1 and #2 driver strategy from the outset as far as WDC is concerned.