Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:08 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:55 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:49 pm


Leclerc in the average bracket?

I'm 99% sure you just forgot him though.
For me, Hamilton and Verstappen stand out because they are both blistering fast over one lap and can manage car and tires. Leclerc has this same ability on a single lap, but (not yet) has this ability to manage a race.

Yeah I'd agree, I would put Leclerc with Ricciardo in the 2nd tier.
I agree, you cannot demote Vettel without moving Leclerc down an equivalent number, because that's who he is measured against.

I'm sure he will re emerge, but right now we have to use the scale that is there
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:08 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:55 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:49 pm


Leclerc in the average bracket?

I'm 99% sure you just forgot him though.
For me, Hamilton and Verstappen stand out because they are both blistering fast over one lap and can manage car and tires. Leclerc has this same ability on a single lap, but (not yet) has this ability to manage a race.

Yeah I'd agree, I would put Leclerc with Ricciardo in the 2nd tier.
Like I wrote somewhere before, the Ferrari pairing for next year feels like Berger & Alesi.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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I also had the feeling with Vandoorne, that he was pushed into “the new Hamilton” by Ron Dennis to further boost the McLaren image at the time.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:49 pm
Scorpaguy wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:41 pm
...the cream rises to the top. Of the 20 drivers we have now, I would only count Ham and Max as greats (Max for sure...this coming from a "Max-hater"). Ric is very good. Vet and Kimi are/or at least were quite good. The rest are simply average (albeit average in a field of 20-elite athletes). Sometimes, circumstances occur that make these average drivers seem good/very good, but in truth, they would all be bested by today's greats. The only wildcard I see from the average drivers is Rus...who has yet to be tested/proven.
Leclerc in the average bracket?

I'm 99% sure you just forgot him though.
Sorry...good catch. On a good day, maybe he is Danny Ric level. Hard to say really as most of his overtakes have been DRS as a result of the fuel-gate engine.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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I think you all are sleeping on Leclerc.
I think he is just every bit as good as Max and even better.

The signs are there. For all I care, Max is little better than Carlos and a litter better than Daniel. I have Max as an elite for now, but the "RedBull driver Island" had been very unproven until Daniel went out against Hulkenburg. That he edged Hulk either brings Max down a little bit, or it pulls Hulk up. LeClerc on the other hand wasn't just "a little better than" he has been smashing everyone he has faced so far, smashing so hard he's going to have to start paying child support soon. I made a thread on it, I see LecLerc as the driver of his generation, he just needs little more experience (He is just in year 3!! can you believe) and the car to fight.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:11 pm
I think you all are sleeping on Leclerc.
I think he is just every bit as good as Max and even better.

The signs are there. For all I care, Max is little better than Carlos and a litter better than Daniel. I have Max as an elite for now, but the "RedBull driver Island" had been very unproven until Daniel went out against Hulkenburg. That he edged Hulk either brings Max down a little bit, or it pulls Hulk up. LeClerc on the other hand wasn't just "a little better than" he has been smashing everyone he has faced so far, smashing so hard he's going to have to start paying child support soon. I made a thread on it, I see LecLerc as the driver of his generation, he just needs little more experience (He is just in year 3!! can you believe) and the car to fight.
Ehm, no .. just no. Just stop the goat'ing mate, it's just stupid.
He's an excellent driver that will ultimately evolve to the pack of the best.
This years 'smashing' has different reasons as well. Last year he didn't smash no one, he got on pretty well, that's it. And Gio is just a clown ..

Just hope for a little more equalled field so there can be a little tension during races.
Sunshine is just a choice ...

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:11 pm
I think you all are sleeping on Leclerc.
I think he is just every bit as good as Max and even better.

The signs are there. For all I care, Max is little better than Carlos and a litter better than Daniel. I have Max as an elite for now, but the "RedBull driver Island" had been very unproven until Daniel went out against Hulkenburg. That he edged Hulk either brings Max down a little bit, or it pulls Hulk up. LeClerc on the other hand wasn't just "a little better than" he has been smashing everyone he has faced so far, smashing so hard he's going to have to start paying child support soon. I made a thread on it, I see LecLerc as the driver of his generation, he just needs little more experience (He is just in year 3!! can you believe) and the car to fight.
Everybody his opinion, but... smashing Erickson isn’t what is that hard... the guy couldn’t even drive a race without loosing concentration.

Leclerc is good, but at the moment just a one trick pony, slowly prepared by Ferrari. Both Verstappen and Hamilton were more then a one trick pony right from the start. Both have Senna’s ability to feel a car and qualify at the absolute limit and have the peace of Prost to extend tire life without loosing speed.

Plus, he, just as Vertappen did, has to lern to stop crashing. Especially into teammates.

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Leclerc is destroying vettel 2 years in a row now.. So.. it looks like people are forgetting some very obvious things.
Verstappen is yet to face a world champion teammate like Leclerc, or even one on Vettel's level.
Leclerc is very much outperforming Vettel on every level apart from race "foresight" which will come with experience.
I also see him as equal or greater than Max. Leclerc has better leadership qualities than Max and a cooler head.
Max has had a massive head start in terms of experience and being in the red bull car that makes you look like a hero.
At best both are same level, with Leclerc more promising in terms of potential. We have seen Max's full potential in terms of his craft, speed, intelligence, temperament, leadership, consistency etc.
For Sure!!

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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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I highly rate Leclerc and i also believe Verstappen is yet to prove himself against a world champion. But Verstappen beat Riccardo who beat Vettel. Having said that, i think Verstappens greatest gift is the ability he has shown to drive cars on tbe edge and perform.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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ringo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 pm
Leclerc is destroying vettel 2 years in a row now.. So.. it looks like people are forgetting some very obvious things.
Verstappen is yet to face a world champion teammate like Leclerc, or even one on Vettel's level.
Leclerc is very much outperforming Vettel on every level apart from race "foresight" which will come with experience.
I also see him as equal or greater than Max. Leclerc has better leadership qualities than Max and a cooler head.
Max has had a massive head start in terms of experience and being in the red bull car that makes you look like a hero.
At best both are same level, with Leclerc more promising in terms of potential. We have seen Max's full potential in terms of his craft, speed, intelligence, temperament, leadership, consistency etc.
Mhoa... from at least the second half of ‘18 Vettels fire stoped burning that bright, even Kimi had his number. We’ve seen the same thing at RedBull, when he’s not in flow, he’s not fast. I hope Vettel will be in flow next year, else even Stroll is going to end up in front of him.

From the first moment in the Ferrari I was impressed by Leclerc, he is very aggressive in securing his position, especially on team radio.

He and Verstappen are in cars both from ‘14 by the way, although Verstappen is longer in F1, their experience is roughly the same (Leclerc is only three weeks younger).

Let’s see how next year will go.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:14 pm
ringo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 pm
Leclerc is destroying vettel 2 years in a row now.. So.. it looks like people are forgetting some very obvious things.
Verstappen is yet to face a world champion teammate like Leclerc, or even one on Vettel's level.
Leclerc is very much outperforming Vettel on every level apart from race "foresight" which will come with experience.
I also see him as equal or greater than Max. Leclerc has better leadership qualities than Max and a cooler head.
Max has had a massive head start in terms of experience and being in the red bull car that makes you look like a hero.
At best both are same level, with Leclerc more promising in terms of potential. We have seen Max's full potential in terms of his craft, speed, intelligence, temperament, leadership, consistency etc.
Mhoa... from at least the second half of ‘18 Vettels fire stoped burning that bright, even Kimi had his number. We’ve seen the same thing at RedBull, when he’s not in flow, he’s not fast. I hope Vettel will be in flow next year, else even Stroll is going to end up in front of him.

From the first moment in the Ferrari I was impressed by Leclerc, he is very aggressive in securing his position, especially on team radio.

He and Verstappen are in cars both from ‘14 by the way, although Verstappen is longer in F1, their experience is roughly the same (Leclerc is only three weeks younger).

Let’s see how next year will go.
From the moment max walked through the door at RedBull in 2016, Ricciardo outscored him to the end of the season. Ricciardo outscored him in 2017. Ricciardo had outscored him up to the point where Danny said he's leaving for Renault. Then Ricciardo had unbelievably bad reliability. Also every year as team mates, Ricciardo had worse reliability. more car breakdowns. Max didn't beat Ricciardo, Ricciardo clearly beat Max.

Max better than Ricciardo, is exactly the same as saying Rosberg was better than Hamilton. Ham won more than he lost as team mates, like Danny did to Max.

I now feel Max is ahead of Danny as Danny hasn't had the chance to show where he's at now, but theres no real proof of either being better to be honest.
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:41 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:14 pm
ringo wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 pm
Leclerc is destroying vettel 2 years in a row now.. So.. it looks like people are forgetting some very obvious things.
Verstappen is yet to face a world champion teammate like Leclerc, or even one on Vettel's level.
Leclerc is very much outperforming Vettel on every level apart from race "foresight" which will come with experience.
I also see him as equal or greater than Max. Leclerc has better leadership qualities than Max and a cooler head.
Max has had a massive head start in terms of experience and being in the red bull car that makes you look like a hero.
At best both are same level, with Leclerc more promising in terms of potential. We have seen Max's full potential in terms of his craft, speed, intelligence, temperament, leadership, consistency etc.
Mhoa... from at least the second half of ‘18 Vettels fire stoped burning that bright, even Kimi had his number. We’ve seen the same thing at RedBull, when he’s not in flow, he’s not fast. I hope Vettel will be in flow next year, else even Stroll is going to end up in front of him.

From the first moment in the Ferrari I was impressed by Leclerc, he is very aggressive in securing his position, especially on team radio.

He and Verstappen are in cars both from ‘14 by the way, although Verstappen is longer in F1, their experience is roughly the same (Leclerc is only three weeks younger).

Let’s see how next year will go.
From the moment max walked through the door at RedBull in 2016, Ricciardo outscored him to the end of the season. Ricciardo outscored him in 2017. Ricciardo had outscored him up to the point where Danny said he's leaving for Renault. Then Ricciardo had unbelievably bad reliability. Also every year as team mates, Ricciardo had worse reliability. more car breakdowns. Max didn't beat Ricciardo, Ricciardo clearly beat Max.

Max better than Ricciardo, is exactly the same as saying Rosberg was better than Hamilton. Ham won more than he lost as team mates, like Danny did to Max.

I now feel Max is ahead of Danny as Danny hasn't had the chance to show where he's at now, but theres no real proof of either being better to be honest.
I'm not talking about Ricciardo, but Vettel, Leclerc's teammate. If historical head to heads is a way to measure drivers, Kvyat is the GOAT.

It's for the world to see that Vettel isn't the same guy at the moment who won 9 races in a row securing his 4th WC. Unforced errors, troublesome in wheel to wheel, frustrated, etc etc. At the moment (and nog another driver vs another driver two years ago) Vettel isn't the best to measure someones race pace on.

Verstappen was winning a F1 race with tire management like a Perez where his peers just discovered downforce in F3.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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@Jolle, sorry just realised I replied to the wrong person. My bad.
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:06 pm
@Jolle, sorry just realised I replied to the wrong person. My bad.
No problem :-)

Ricciardo is still an enigma however. He is fast, funny, great guy... but I just don't see him leading a team to a WC.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:10 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:06 pm
@Jolle, sorry just realised I replied to the wrong person. My bad.
No problem :-)

Ricciardo is still an enigma however. He is fast, funny, great guy... but I just don't see him leading a team to a WC.
Yeh, imagine at Ferrari. Yay, a podium. now about this tattoo :twisted:
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