[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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CjC
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I not so sure we should be beating the team up. I for one thought we’d have a very decent race here at Mugello because of the characteristics of the track and how the team were sounding optimistic leading up to the event and it turns out it was false optimism . At the end of the day this wasn’t a ‘traditional/ historical’ F1 circuit so Mclaren had very little data and basically got it wrong this weekend but on the other hand when we go to Portimao which is another venue where ALL the teams will have very little data we might have better weekend than expected.

For me this years package is a step forward than last year- it can give us very high peak performance- second fastest team at Monza and a podium at Austria but at it’s lowest performance is battling for 10th. Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us but when we perform at our ultimate best we get a big hauls of points. It’s going to be a fascinating and no doubt frustrating battle this season for 3rd.
Just a fan's point of view

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Andres125sx
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us

I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...

PowerandtheGlory
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:05 am
CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us

I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...
I dont think RP have been consitent, other than being fast some weeks and slow the next as they dont understand the car concept they’ve adopted(copied).
Rensult have improved during the year dince the british GP...
Mclaren had a great start to the season, but struggled since Belgium..
I think mclaren have the best driver pairing on their day.. i think sainz and norris are great.. renault havent got ocon performing yet, and i think RP are looking stronger now as perez is in the shop window...
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:05 am
CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us

I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...
If you look at Racing points points haul, they look a little more consistent than us.

They are only 14 points behind now with a 15 point penalty applied and have been catching us overall. We had an outlier finish in Monza, which has kept us ahead, without that extraordinary result, we would be struggling to keep our heads above water.

I'm not saying it is not deserved, I'm referring to consistency. RP have had nothing like that result (would have this weekend if not for tyre failure) but are still level on points if you ignore the penalty. So I think RP have been more consistent than us and we are ahead due to the penalty and due to great results in Austria and in Monza.

genarro
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:57 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:05 am
CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us

I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...
If you look at Racing points points haul, they look a little more consistent than us.

They are only 14 points behind now with a 15 point penalty applied and have been catching us overall. We had an outlier finish in Monza, which has kept us ahead, without that extraordinary result, we would be struggling to keep our heads above water.

I'm not saying it is not deserved, I'm referring to consistency. RP have had nothing like that result (would have this weekend if not for tyre failure) but are still level on points if you ignore the penalty. So I think RP have been more consistent than us and we are ahead due to the penalty and due to great results in Austria and in Monza.
again you are wrong. Silverstone last lap puncture (best of the rest), second Silverstone race the tyre pressures were altered thats why we struggled. In Spa Carlos didnt even start. So if you look we have been consistent through the whole season just this weekend we didnt perform good.

mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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genarro wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:27 am
mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:57 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:05 am



I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...
If you look at Racing points points haul, they look a little more consistent than us.

They are only 14 points behind now with a 15 point penalty applied and have been catching us overall. We had an outlier finish in Monza, which has kept us ahead, without that extraordinary result, we would be struggling to keep our heads above water.

I'm not saying it is not deserved, I'm referring to consistency. RP have had nothing like that result (would have this weekend if not for tyre failure) but are still level on points if you ignore the penalty. So I think RP have been more consistent than us and we are ahead due to the penalty and due to great results in Austria and in Monza.
again you are wrong. Silverstone last lap puncture (best of the rest), second Silverstone race the tyre pressures were altered thats why we struggled. In Spa Carlos didnt even start. So if you look we have been consistent through the whole season just this weekend we didnt perform good.
Again?? I know everyone is wrong at times but you seem to have a certain need to punctuate my incorectness lol
In any case, opinions are opinions and not fact and are best not regarded as such.

In my opinion, everyone has issues that plague them, RP had a DNS with Hulkenberg's first race and Stroll lost out on third place at this weekend due to a puncture. That doesn't matter to me. Results matter and theirs are more consistent than ours. You can argue the toss on how they got there but nine races in and a pattern forms, no matter how chaotic it might look under the surface, the surface shows them to be consistently gaining their points without as much deviation from either a median or average finishing position than Mclaren.

RP have finished outside the top ten only due to two retirements and 1 DNS, we have 1 Ret, 1 DNS and 3 finishes outside the top ten. I think that Andres125sx mentioned pit stops and bad luck, for instance. It's not bad luck, it's an inconsistency at pit stops that affected our results. We have to own that inconsistency and not put it to luck.

Again, we deserved those points and could have done better, but RP could have done better with luck too. So hats off for them outscoring us (before penalty) despite not getting a massive 2nd and 4th place finish like we did.

I would personally rather face up and admit there is a ton of work to do for our team, but still be happy with the season so far :D

Balalu
Balalu
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Actually, it was bad luck to us that we got 2nd and 4th. We should have got 1st and 2nd. Or at the very least 2nd and 3rd. On pure merit, and with our own car, designed and built by us. ;)

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Andres125sx wrote:
CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us

I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...
In all fairness, the teams we are fighting for P3 have had their fair share of issues also... RIC has DNF’ed, Stroll has DNF’ed, Ocon has DNF’ed... So, just as Mclaren has had their share of bad luck, it hasn’t been the only team to experience it.


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SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:05 am
CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us

I´d say it´s exactly the opposite, McLaren is 3rd in the WCC because of consistency, something both Renault and RP have been missing the whole season with some GPs performing great while on others they´re nowhere.

And that´s with Sainz terrible luck with all kind of incidents, some car failure, several pitstop problems, some racing incidents with no responsibility, some SC or red flags wich didn´t favour...
If you look at Racing points points haul, they look a little more consistent than us.

They are only 14 points behind now with a 15 point penalty applied and have been catching us overall. We had an outlier finish in Monza, which has kept us ahead, without that extraordinary result, we would be struggling to keep our heads above water.

I'm not saying it is not deserved, I'm referring to consistency. RP have had nothing like that result (would have this weekend if not for tyre failure) but are still level on points if you ignore the penalty. So I think RP have been more consistent than us and we are ahead due to the penalty and due to great results in Austria and in Monza.
Spot on... I’m glad we are fighting for P3, but I don’t think it was on the team’s expectations for the season to be fighting for it... Based on track performance, we really should be fighting for P4.


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Macklaren
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Wow...tough crowd in here

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Macklaren wrote:Wow...tough crowd in here
Just trying to be realistic... Based on all the comments from the team and actual performance on track, the RP20 is a better car than the MCL35... Between DNF’s on both sides, the fact that Racing Point has had a harder time understanding their car compared to Mclaren, that the drivers are making a bigger difference (I rate Sainz and Norris higher than Perez and Stroll) and considering that the RP20 has had 15 points taken from them... Mclaren “should” be behind the RP20 and therefore fighting for P4 against Renault.

Now, with development though the season and of course this been Motorsports (therefore car performance been just one variable among many) we are currently in P3 at the midpoint of the season and that’s fantastic... But, there is a big difference between holding P3 (on merit) and having the third fastest car, which personally I don’t think is the case.

The positive is that the delta’s between the cars aren’t huge, it isn’t like the MCL35 is a second behind the RP20 and therefore, between the drivers, the strategy and overall team operations at the track, we have a fighting chance.


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CjC
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Massively tough :lol:
It’s only natural to forget about our woes since the ‘15 season and to be now disappointed with only a double points finish :lol:
Just a fan's point of view

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diffuser
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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CjC wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:40 pm
I not so sure we should be beating the team up. I for one thought we’d have a very decent race here at Mugello because of the characteristics of the track and how the team were sounding optimistic leading up to the event and it turns out it was false optimism . At the end of the day this wasn’t a ‘traditional/ historical’ F1 circuit so Mclaren had very little data and basically got it wrong this weekend but on the other hand when we go to Portimao which is another venue where ALL the teams will have very little data we might have better weekend than expected.

For me this years package is a step forward than last year- it can give us very high peak performance- second fastest team at Monza and a podium at Austria but at it’s lowest performance is battling for 10th. Renault and Racing Point are a tad more consistent than us but when we perform at our ultimate best we get a big hauls of points. It’s going to be a fascinating and no doubt frustrating battle this season for 3rd.
The thing that came up often for McLaren was the wind in certain turns, is McLaren are having more issues tham others with that kind of envirnoment. We couldn't really see from the race, if in Sainz's hands, would he have really benifited from the drop of 2 Km in wind from Saturday.

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Andres125sx
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:37 am
I think that Andres125sx mentioned pit stops and bad luck, for instance. It's not bad luck, it's an inconsistency at pit stops that affected our results.
To be more precise, when I said bad luck I was refering to all the incidents suffered since the start of the season as a whole, not specifically those poor pitsops, those only add drama to the red flag wich could have been a victory, Sainz puncture with 2 laps to go when he was 4th, a weird PU problem in the formation lap wich supposed a DNS, and some other

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Andres125sx
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:26 pm
Just trying to be realistic... Based on all the comments from the team and actual performance on track, the RP20 is a better car than the MCL35
Agree, but that´s different from being consistent. IMHO both RP drivers and wall crew didn´t get the most of the car, IMHO they should be 3rd, but it´s McLaren who earn that position today as they got more from their car in these 9 GPs


Despite the bad luck :mrgreen:



They´re pretty even anycase