Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
704
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:44 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:32 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:25 pm
Funny how you say that, Hamilton was quite poor in the rain in 09. Didn't his teammate beat him at China?
This would have ended differently for a lot of other drivers, and it also shows some of the issues with the cars stability. That should be next to impossible in that turn!

I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?
Humans have off days. Your point?

No one is claiming Hamilton is omnipotent. He's had some bad days, heck, he even had a whole bad season (but still managed to take poles and win races), but on balance he's performed at a remarkably high consistent level. Across his F1 career, 61% podium finishes (no modern driver comes close) and 85% points finishes (better even than the great Fangio) show that. No doubt those figures will now be argued to show that he's lucky etc.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
704
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:58 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:48 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:45 pm


Fernando Alonso?
Alonso only beat one world champion in the same car and that was Button. That's just one.
You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?
Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wynters
Wynters
64
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:10 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:58 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:48 pm

Alonso only beat one world champion in the same car and that was Button. That's just one.
You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?
Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?
Kimi and Villeneuve?

That's actually hilarious :lol:

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:03 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:44 pm
I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?
So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.
I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?
Last edited by Wass85 on Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wynters wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:12 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:10 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:58 pm


You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?
Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?
Kimi and Villeneuve?

That's actually hilarious :lol:
Their titles don't count?

Wynters
Wynters
64
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Villeneuve... :lol: :lol: :lol:

dans79
dans79
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:12 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:03 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:44 pm
I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?
So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.
I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?
It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/
McLaren rushed an interim 'double diffuser' onto Lewis Hamilton's car for the Chinese grand prix weekend.

The reigning world champion then steered the modified MP4-24 to the top of the morning timesheets in Friday practice, ahead of the two dominant Brawns.

In the other McLaren, Heikki Kovalainen is not using the new aerodynamic package, and was fourth quickest, just over three tenths slower than the tweaked car.
169 100 98 7

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:22 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:12 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:03 pm


So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.
I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?
It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/
McLaren rushed an interim 'double diffuser' onto Lewis Hamilton's car for the Chinese grand prix weekend.

The reigning world champion then steered the modified MP4-24 to the top of the morning timesheets in Friday practice, ahead of the two dominant Brawns.

In the other McLaren, Heikki Kovalainen is not using the new aerodynamic package, and was fourth quickest, just over three tenths slower than the tweaked car.
That just tells me the new parts were quicker?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
704
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:12 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:03 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:44 pm
I'm not sure what that has got to do with his poor performance in the wet at China?
So you think a car thats aerodynamically unstable in the dry isn't going to be even worse in the wet?

And to be 100% clear, Lewis was running the new diffuser/aero package that was unstable, Heikki was running the older slower but morse stable package.
I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt more even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?
They were chucking the kitchen sink at that car to try to claw back the downforce they'd lost and that others had done a better job of finding. Both McLaren and Renault rushed out a double diffuser following the FIA's ruling on the legality of these devices. Sadly, Brawn's lead wasn't so much down to the diffuser as the outwash front wing. Teams were messing around with the diffuser and getting mixed results because, as we now know, the floor wasn't getting the correct airflow due to front tyre wake. Brawn GP had figured that bit out from the off. Red Bull did a decent job too.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

User avatar
Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Phil wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:43 pm
You may be right about the car improving in the second half. But beating his team mate(s) consistently across the 13 years he has been driving in F1 paints a picture that indeed he has a talent that the others he has driven against lack. You may point to lack of wins and poles in the first half of 2009. I'll just point to him beating his team-mate across the board. The tally against Heiki that year 8-2 in races that they finished both. In fact, the difference was that large that Heiki wasn't retained beyond that year. What's more to say about 2009?
Both Alonso and Rosberg did better in beating their team mates that year than Hamilton. Given the kind of cars they had, they dished out relatively performance than Hamilton.

Dropping Heiki had more to do with Jenson being available than Heiki's performance itself. He was just another Bottas.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

dans79
dans79
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:24 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:22 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:12 pm


I'm sure you remembered all that?

Do you have a source?

I'm not sure why they would opt for even more instability when the car was unstable to begin with?
It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/
McLaren rushed an interim 'double diffuser' onto Lewis Hamilton's car for the Chinese grand prix weekend.

The reigning world champion then steered the modified MP4-24 to the top of the morning timesheets in Friday practice, ahead of the two dominant Brawns.

In the other McLaren, Heikki Kovalainen is not using the new aerodynamic package, and was fourth quickest, just over three tenths slower than the tweaked car.
That just tells me the new parts were quicker?
If you can't tell from the video that the car was unstable by the fact that the rear stepped out in turn 7 in the dry, then you are just wasting everyone's time!
169 100 98 7

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Moore77
25
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

Wynters wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:12 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:10 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:58 pm


You must have forgot Kimi and Villeneuve?
Quite right, I did. Should have remembered Kimi, for a start. Villeneuve, of course, was a stand in driver at the end of a season for what, 3 races?
Kimi and Villeneuve?

That's actually hilarious :lol:
Why?
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

Post

dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:34 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:24 pm
dans79 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:22 pm


It was unstable, because like most teams they were rushing to come up with an affective DD and didn't have a good grasp on the concept yet.

https://www.motor1.com/news/15079/new-d ... -in-china/
That just tells me the new parts were quicker?
If you can't tell from the video that the car was unstable by the fact that the rear stepped out in turn 7 in the dry, then you are just wasting everyone's time!
Cars sometimes do that in practice.

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Phil
433
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:33 pm
Both Alonso and Rosberg did better in beating their team mates that year than Hamilton. Given the kind of cars they had, they dished out relatively performance than Hamilton.

Dropping Heiki had more to do with Jenson being available than Heiki's performance itself. He was just another Bottas.
That says more about their respective team mates than it does about Lewis. Come on Moore, you're better than this. :wink:

Anyway, I'm out. This whole topic isn't going anywhere and I could really care less about convincing you or anyone else. The way I see it, the haters and antis will be far more bitter about Lewis breaking the records than the fans having to prove his talents. :)

As a Lewis fan, I could care less if he has 3, 6 or 9384 titles. He has done more in and outside of the sport to be remembered far beyond some of the "old greats". As some of them, he may only be appreciated once he hangs up his helmet.

For the topic; The longer Hamilton drives, the more likely he is to keep his records. If he stops soon, I could well imagine Verstappen or Leclerc being one of two who are still young enough to easily catch Lewis. 6+ titles isn't that much.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Phil wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:41 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:33 pm
Both Alonso and Rosberg did better in beating their team mates that year than Hamilton. Given the kind of cars they had, they dished out relatively performance than Hamilton.

Dropping Heiki had more to do with Jenson being available than Heiki's performance itself. He was just another Bottas.
That says more about their respective team mates than it does about Lewis. Come on Moore, you're better than this. :wink:

Anyway, I'm out. This whole topic isn't going anywhere and I could really care less about convincing you or anyone else. The way I see it, the haters and antis will be far more bitter about Lewis breaking the records than the fans having to prove his talents. :)

As a Lewis fan, I could care less if he has 3, 6 or 9384 titles. He has done more in and outside of the sport to be remembered far beyond some of the "old greats". As some of them, he may only be appreciated once he hangs up his helmet.

For the topic; The longer Hamilton drives, the more likely he is to keep his records. If he stops soon, I could well imagine Verstappen or Leclerc being one of two who are still young enough to easily catch Lewis. 6+ titles isn't that much.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I respect what you say. :)
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.