Silly Season 2020/2021 (starting with silliness in 2019)

[selvam_e2002]

Even I doubt Lecrec can tolerate the pressure from Italy and Ferrari. Now they are in Honeymoon period, we will come to know in 2022. if still ferrari sticking with Lecrec or look some one from outside. The the story will repeat and so on..... you cannot have MSchemacher era again and for Mercedes after 2025 rule change the Hamilton era will not be there. It is a Cycle.

[Peter1919]

Should we just ignore his pre Red Bull career as well? It was obvious from the start that Vettel was a big talent.

True, winning the BMW championship the way he did was very impressive. Not so much when he got to F3, but still was looking a very good prospect.

Plus his stint with Torro Rosso, I don't know what happened to him in 2014 but I have a feeling he'd already decided to go to Ferrari after winning the title in 2013.

I thik he had a performace get out clause in his contract which was what allowed him to sign for Ferrari. I suspect he was at least partly deliberately underperforming to allow him to activate the performance clause.

[Phil]

I thik he had a performace get out clause in his contract which was what allowed him to sign for Ferrari. I suspect he was at least partly deliberately underperforming to allow him to activate the performance clause.

Knowing that context about the contract situation, I feel this is something that shouldn't be ruled out. Indeed it could be that Vettels performance vs Riccardo was impacted by the contract situation.

However, Vettel has never shown the ability to perform particularly well in 'difficult' cars with anything but a non-planted rear. The car in 2014 wasn't easy to drive and had its quirks, as well as the reliability factor. He is showing a similar performance vs Leclerc now. Last year when the car was arguably a lot better and stronger, he only narrowly lost out to Leclerc in the qualifying heads-to-head.

[Jolle]

I don’t know what is worse, being beaten on merit as a reining champion by your teammate or deliberately undermining.

If you look at Vettel’s driving style, it looks like he isn’t even aware of the rear of the car. Even on the apex of the corner here he’s in, his eyes and attention is already on the next corner, while the rear still needs to exit the corner. This is why he spins quite often on the most strange places, he’s busy with the next corner... this rear he never had to think about, keeps him stuck in the “now” and slows him down even further and limits his ability to do wheel to wheel with a clear head.
Basically, he’s only driving half the car

[Just_a_fan]

Should we just ignore his pre Red Bull career as well? It was obvious from the start that Vettel was a big talent.

True, winning the BMW championship the way he did was very impressive. Not so much when he got to F3, but still was looking a very good prospect.

Plus his stint with Torro Rosso, I don't know what happened to him in 2014 but I have a feeling he'd already decided to go to Ferrari after winning the title in 2013.

It has been suggested that Vettel couldn't get to grips with the different style required of the new cars. He likes a stable rear so he can turn in hard and then get on the throttle early knowing the rear will be there for him. The blown diffuser in the years before 2014 had been brilliant for this because flooring the throttle brings instant rear downforce and thus the rear gripped exactly when he wanted it to. This was seen when the system was developed and Webber dropped back from Vettel. Previously, they'd been much closer. Webber's traditional style didn't work so well with the requirements of the blown diffuser.

The loss of the blown diffuser required a different approach and a rear that wasn't quite so stable. We've seen Vettel struggle more recently when the rear isn't there for him. Other drivers can handle a less stable rear - Leclerc seems to be happier with it than Vettel. Hamilton has been well known for it. Button was more like Vettel and needed a stable rear. He's talked about this on a number of occasions.

It's a small difference - all of these cars would feel a handful for any of us!

[dans79]

It's a small difference - all of these cars would feel a handful for any of us!

I think some of us would feel the car was actively trying to kill us!

[Wastegate]

I don’t know what is worse, being beaten on merit as a reining champion by your teammate or deliberately undermining.

If you look at Vettel’s driving style, it looks like he isn’t even aware of the rear of the car. Even on the apex of the corner here he’s in, his eyes and attention is already on the next corner, while the rear still needs to exit the corner. This is why he spins quite often on the most strange places, he’s busy with the next corner... this rear he never had to think about, keeps him stuck in the “now” and slows him down even further and limits his ability to do wheel to wheel with a clear head.
Basically, he’s only driving half the car

Well, what you are suggesting is the exact opposite of what a driver has to do, which is to shift his main focus to the next track feature while he's still in a corner...

[Jolle]

I don’t know what is worse, being beaten on merit as a reining champion by your teammate or deliberately undermining.

If you look at Vettel’s driving style, it looks like he isn’t even aware of the rear of the car. Even on the apex of the corner here he’s in, his eyes and attention is already on the next corner, while the rear still needs to exit the corner. This is why he spins quite often on the most strange places, he’s busy with the next corner... this rear he never had to think about, keeps him stuck in the “now” and slows him down even further and limits his ability to do wheel to wheel with a clear head.
Basically, he’s only driving half the car

Well, what you are suggesting is the exact opposite of what a driver has to do, which is to shift his main focus to the next track feature while he's still in a corner...

In races with clear visors you can sometimes see his eyes already on the next apex.... it made him super fast in the planted rear years, but bites him in the ass, literally, now

[PlatinumZealot]

I don't buy the excuse that he cant drive a loose car anymore. I have begun to believe that Vettel simply gets nervous when he has a fast teamate. He is essentially the racing version of the sprinter Asafa Powell.

Asafa Powell was setting crazy times before Bolt came along. Breaking records against journeymen. But take him to the championships. The final round. The big show with the fast compeition next to him and he melts into a hobbly wobbly mess. He hasn't gotten a championship gold medal or championship despite running under ten seconds a 100 times in his career! That's just crazy!

Same for Vettel he hasn't been able to beat a fast guy next to him. I just do not believe that the speed this guy showed in 2013 and 2017 cannot overturn a little skinny monegasque kid.

[Wass85]

I don't buy the excuse that he cant drive a loose car anymore. I have begun to believe that Vettel simply gets nervous when he has a fast teamate. He is essentially the racing version of the sprinter Asafa Powell.

Asafa Powell was setting crazy times before Bolt came along. Breaking records against journeymen. But take him to the championships. The final round. The big show with the fast compeition next to him and he melts into a hobbly wobbly mess. He hasn't gotten a championship gold medal or championship despite running under ten seconds a 100 times in his career! That's just crazy!

Same for Vettel he hasn't been able to beat a fast guy next to him.

He was looking very shaky when he had Kimi partnering him.

God knows the reasons for him losing his form but it's as much Ferrari's fault as his IMO.

[PlatinumZealot]

His form is not lost. It's in his head. Watch him destroy Stroll mext year.

[Wass85]

His form is not lost. It's in his head. Watch him destroy Stroll mext year.

I don't think he will, it will be much harder than you imagine IMO.

[Jolle]

His form is not lost. It's in his head. Watch him destroy Stroll mext year.

Lets hope so, he doesn’t deserve to be decimated like this. But.. if RP is doing it’s tracing work again and end up (again) with a car they don’t fully understand, Stroll might be a hard one to beat. Word on the street is, that Stroll’s strong point is actual unpredictable cars (that’s where his strong wet races are coming from).

[PlatinumZealot]

Hmph! Vettel has a lot to lose there against Stroll. One year contract or two year with excape clauses if he is wise. Opposite of water tight. A basket!

[raymondu999]

His form is not lost. It's in his head. Watch him destroy Stroll mext year.

Lets hope so, he doesn’t deserve to be decimated like this. But.. if RP is doing it’s tracing work again and end up (again) with a car they don’t fully understand, Stroll might be a hard one to beat. Word on the street is, that Stroll’s strong point is actual unpredictable cars (that’s where his strong wet races are coming from).

I remember someone making an analysis of his style - Mark Hughes maybe? I forget - and saying that his engineers are generally slightly confused when they first start working with him, both at RP/Williams - because he never knew what he needed to be improved on the car. He sort of throws the car in and reacts to whatever it gives him. Sort of a calmer Maldonado type driver