Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[dxpetrov]

Ok, lets go back to ICE only, as the time has proven that only Germans are competent enough to fully master the hybrid technology.
This wrong engine saga continues with all except Mercedes are becoming victims of stupid decisions.

[nzjrs]

Oof, terrible. I wonder if blocking their in season planned and ready developments contributed to this decision.

[bigblue]

Here's an excerpt from the press release https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2020 ... 2aeng.html

In the meantime, as the automobile industry undergoes a once-in-one-hundred-years period of great transformation, Honda has decided to strive for the “realization of carbon neutrality by 2050.” This goal will be pursued as part of Honda’s environmental initiatives which is one of the top priorities of Honda as a mobility manufacturer.

Toward this end, Honda needs to funnel its corporate resources in research and development into the areas of future power unit and energy technologies, including fuel cell vehicle (FCV) and battery EV (BEV) technologies, which will be the core of carbon-free technologies. As a part of this move, in April of this year, Honda created a new center called Innovative Research Excellence, Power Unit & Energy. Honda will allocate its energy management and fuel technologies as well as knowledge amassed through F1 activities to this area of power unit and energy technologies and take initiatives while focusing on the future realization of carbon neutrality. Toward this end, Honda made the decision to conclude its participation in F1.

If you take that at face value, maybe it's Honda not investing in these things enough up to now, or making strategic errors in direction up til now. Or maybe it's just so expensive that this was always going to make F1 look like an extravagance. Honda remains independent unlike most other car companies which are part of some big group, which makes them unique and gives them their character. Unfortunately it also leaves them slightly vulnerable (they're still a significant player no doubt, but not like being part of the Volkswagen-Audi group). There was a recent commitment to more collaboration with GM which includes electric vehicles I believe.

Sadly it's a repeat of what happened during the financial crisis - big changes potentially happening and out of F1. Infuriating when they're actually getting somewhere now, and tied up with one of the two best teams (and the one that doesn't make their own engines !).

Edit : as for in-season development, it could only have helped I think, though even if they were leading the championship, there's a danger that the board sees it as "job done" and pulls out anyway. Who knows ...

Edit 2 : a link about Honda and GM, in case you're interested

[djones]

I suspect the latest rule change was the final nail in the coffin where they realised they would never be able to match the resources of Mercedes.

Honda and Redbull seemed adamant Mercedes had a magic bullet and pushed for the change. Then after the change, Honda dropped back more than any other engine manufacturer (relatively speaking).

Redbull will be interesting to see what they do next as they won't get a Mercedes or Ferrari engine. And they burnt bridges with Renault!!

I'll call it now... Redbull to leave F1 as well.

[Wouter]

Oof, terrible. I wonder if blocking their in season planned and ready developments contributed to this decision.

I am very sure of that. Plus the fact that RBR came up with a very bad car this year.
The racing department wanted to continue, but action was taken from above.

Well TOTO, congratulations !!

[kalinka]

The FIA-Ferrari secret deal didn't help either Seems like Liberty fails to get rid of Berine's system soon enough. Sad news

[etusch]

I would say 3 reason
1 Mercedes psition, they do what they want (I think Englishes push teams to do everything in england and only merc has both engine and chassis development operation in england)
2 Honda can not introduce their ideas because fia says they are illegal ( as they declared during winter testing)
3 and bigger one is world ekonomic crises called pandemic.

[_cerber1]

I'll call it now... Redbull to leave F1 as well.

Horner said they remain true to F1.

[Craigy]

I can't believe the people saying this was unexpected today. Not only was this expected, we talked about it in March.

This crisis will be more intense that 2008 financial crisis. I won’t be surprised if the announce a total PU freeze from 2021.

I don't understand why you're using the future tense, "will be". It's already outstripped 2008, almost double. There are news articles featuring the "D" word, never mind just a recession.

Forget F1 entries for a second. Some of the manufacturers may not survive this at all.

It will be interesting to see if any of the other manufacturers leave. Renault's financials look abysmal at the moment and it's likely the firm cannot survive without state aid which will be problematic in terms of EU regulation, and may or may not allow for F1 spending.

If F1 does go down to two engine makers [Mercedes/Ferrari], and there isn't another manufacturer waiting in the wings, I sort of expect Cosworth to be drafted in by FOM to become the PU-maker of last resort, which would require a huge investment and a revision of the rules to make it simpler.

[Revs84]

Here's an excerpt from the press release https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2020 ... 2aeng.html

In the meantime, as the automobile industry undergoes a once-in-one-hundred-years period of great transformation, Honda has decided to strive for the “realization of carbon neutrality by 2050.” This goal will be pursued as part of Honda’s environmental initiatives which is one of the top priorities of Honda as a mobility manufacturer.

Toward this end, Honda needs to funnel its corporate resources in research and development into the areas of future power unit and energy technologies, including fuel cell vehicle (FCV) and battery EV (BEV) technologies, which will be the core of carbon-free technologies. As a part of this move, in April of this year, Honda created a new center called Innovative Research Excellence, Power Unit & Energy. Honda will allocate its energy management and fuel technologies as well as knowledge amassed through F1 activities to this area of power unit and energy technologies and take initiatives while focusing on the future realization of carbon neutrality. Toward this end, Honda made the decision to conclude its participation in F1.

If you take that at face value, maybe it's Honda not investing in these things enough up to now, or making strategic errors in direction up til now. Or maybe it's just so expensive that this was always going to make F1 look like an extravagance. Honda remains independent unlike most other car companies which are part of some big group, which makes them unique and gives them their character. Unfortunately it also leaves them slightly vulnerable (they're still a significant player no doubt, but not like being part of the Volkswagen-Audi group). There was a recent commitment to more collaboration with GM which includes electric vehicles I believe.

Sadly it's a repeat of what happened during the financial crisis - big changes potentially happening and out of F1. Infuriating when they're actually getting somewhere now, and tied up with one of the two best teams (and the one that doesn't make their own engines !).

Edit : as for in-season development, it could only have helped I think, though even if they were leading the championship, there's a danger that the board sees it as "job done" and pulls out anyway. Who knows ...

Edit 2 : a link about Honda and GM, in case you're interested

I think you're very much on the mark. The sudden drive for electrification is extremely expensive, and Honda, as you well pointed out, being on their own, can't bank on any partnerships. More importantly, they can't risk falling behind.

As much as I understand their reasoning, I can't help but being utterly disappointed. Without Honda, F1 will mean very little to me, and I very much doubt I'll continue following it so closely after 2021.

[_cerber1]

It will be interesting to see if any of the other manufacturers leave. Renault's financials look abysmal at the moment and it's likely the firm cannot survive without state aid which will be problematic in terms of EU regulation, and may or may not allow for F1 spending.

If F1 does go down to two engine makers [Mercedes/Ferrari], and there isn't another manufacturer waiting in the wings, I sort of expect Cosworth to be drafted in by FOM to become the PU-maker of last resort, which would require a huge investment and a revision of the rules to make it simpler.

Renault is not going to leave, their new head is an F1 fan, budgets are cut, engines are frozen, they are satisfied with everything.

[dfegan358]

I just can’t see Renault being interested in supplying Red bull again. Fascinating times. Wasn’t aware it was in the rules that Renault had to supply red bull again if necessary.

Some head scratching going on around red bull now, this was supposed to be the partnership that could propel red bull to titles again.

[Revs84]

Abiteboul just mentioned very recently that partnering with Red Bull is extremely unlikely.

Any thoughts on Honda selling their IP to RBR? I doubt that will happen, and if it does, I doubt it will be cheap.

But a possibility nevertheless, given RBR will be allowed to spend such money with the current financial regulations.

[Jaisonas]

Abiteboul just mentioned very recently that partnering with Red Bull is extremely unlikely.

Any thoughts on Honda selling their IP to RBR? I doubt that will happen, and if it does, I doubt it will be cheap.

But a possibility nevertheless, given RBR will be allowed to spend such money with the current financial regulations.

And what are RBR gonna do with their IP? Put it on a shelf? They have no infrastructure or knowledge for engine manufacturing, not mentioning that said IP is worth many millions.

[Sasha]

It was already decided but they didn't want 2009 again so gave RB extra year hoping for two championships instead of one.
They was leaving.

Most likely never come back because they don't understand the game anymore.
The profit margin replaced engineering.