[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
M840TR
M840TR
390
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

ThePapayaJaguar wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:59 am
M840TR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:56 pm
ThePapayaJaguar wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:30 am


Oh yeah, I'm definitely aware of that. Even Seidl mentioned that it is a more complex problem than just tailwinds. My guess is that the car's lower mechanical grip, when compared to the competition, is being amplified by tailwinds. Seidl did say that the wind-related issues are on James Key's priority list, so fingers crossed.

I wish we heard from the technical directors more often.
It's more related to the specific way air travels around the car which can determine how prone it is to detachment.
Hmm, that makes sense. So is it possible that the air is detaching at the coke bottle section, given how aggressive it is? I just read the posts godlameroso posted on the MCL35 thread and if I'm understanding it correctly the high pressure field controlling the direction of the vortices at the rear of the car is being disturbed by crosswinds and tailwinds (which results in a loss of downforce).
Who's to say what precisely is causing the problems? If they could surmise by just looking at photos they wouldn't need to spends tens of hours in the simulation tools. Most of it is just speculation.

Detachment of air is a probable deduction. The issue is that under normal conditions there isn't detachment. So why is a tailwind causing that? Who knows.

User avatar
diffuser
237
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

M840TR wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:25 pm
ThePapayaJaguar wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:59 am
M840TR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:56 pm


It's more related to the specific way air travels around the car which can determine how prone it is to detachment.
Hmm, that makes sense. So is it possible that the air is detaching at the coke bottle section, given how aggressive it is? I just read the posts godlameroso posted on the MCL35 thread and if I'm understanding it correctly the high pressure field controlling the direction of the vortices at the rear of the car is being disturbed by crosswinds and tailwinds (which results in a loss of downforce).
Who's to say what precisely is causing the problems? If they could surmise by just looking at photos they wouldn't need to spends tens of hours in the simulation tools. Most of it is just speculation.

Detachment of air is a probable deduction. The issue is that under normal conditions there isn't detachment. So why is a tailwind causing that? Who knows.
I think it makes sense. Except a 5 KPH tailwind when you going over 100KM per hour apears as as what? Like you're going 95KPH ? From that point, I don't understand why it would be detaching.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
341
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Both cars should be using the new nose concept and there seems to be new floors for both cars also.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

CjC
CjC
33
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

I more often than not prefer Carlos’ outlook on the weekend/ aftermath of the races compared to Landos’ opinion.

For me I feel as if Lando isn’t in the fight, for example- I quote: ‘I won’t be shocked or worried when racing point come past us’
Not once does he say anything along the lines of ‘I’ll extract everything and more that I can to keep them behind’ à la Alonso or Hamilton.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... y71mS.html
Just a fan's point of view

User avatar
adrianjordan
99
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

CjC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:09 pm
I more often than not prefer Carlos’ outlook on the weekend/ aftermath of the races compared to Landos’ opinion.

For me I feel as if Lando isn’t in the fight, for example- I quote: ‘I won’t be shocked or worried when racing point come past us’
Not once does he say anything along the lines of ‘I’ll extract everything and more that I can to keep them behind’ à la Alonso or Hamilton.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... y71mS.html
And yet he's 4th in the WDC standings.
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

User avatar
djos
165
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

CjC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:09 pm
I more often than not prefer Carlos’ outlook on the weekend/ aftermath of the races compared to Landos’ opinion.

For me I feel as if Lando isn’t in the fight, for example- I quote: ‘I won’t be shocked or worried when racing point come past us’
Not once does he say anything along the lines of ‘I’ll extract everything and more that I can to keep them behind’ à la Alonso or Hamilton.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... y71mS.html
I prefer his realistic assessments. I think he is far more honest and down to earth in his assesments than the other rich kid on the grid. I like him a lot as a driver and a human being.

I bet when he's got the Merc PU next year you wont hear those kinds of comments, as both he and Daniel will out-qualify and out-race the Tracing-points.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

ThePapayaJaguar
ThePapayaJaguar
7
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:39 am
Location: California

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/5778 ... ky-a-spec/

The team must be bringing quite a few bits to the car if Carlos is calling the car in Sochi an A-spec. We probably shouldn't read into it too much because the new front wing alone is obviously a change in direction and concept. On another note, Seidl is concerned about the wind this weekend. Will be an interesting FP1.

User avatar
diffuser
237
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:12 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:09 pm
I more often than not prefer Carlos’ outlook on the weekend/ aftermath of the races compared to Landos’ opinion.

For me I feel as if Lando isn’t in the fight, for example- I quote: ‘I won’t be shocked or worried when racing point come past us’
Not once does he say anything along the lines of ‘I’ll extract everything and more that I can to keep them behind’ à la Alonso or Hamilton.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... y71mS.html
And yet he's 4th in the WDC standings.
Are you trying to make a connection between cjc's preference of Sanz over Norris's outlook and points this season? Cause I don't think there is. Nor is cjc suggesting that.

ThePapayaJaguar
ThePapayaJaguar
7
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:39 am
Location: California

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

M840TR wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:25 pm
ThePapayaJaguar wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:59 am
M840TR wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:56 pm


It's more related to the specific way air travels around the car which can determine how prone it is to detachment.
Hmm, that makes sense. So is it possible that the air is detaching at the coke bottle section, given how aggressive it is? I just read the posts godlameroso posted on the MCL35 thread and if I'm understanding it correctly the high pressure field controlling the direction of the vortices at the rear of the car is being disturbed by crosswinds and tailwinds (which results in a loss of downforce).
Who's to say what precisely is causing the problems? If they could surmise by just looking at photos they wouldn't need to spends tens of hours in the simulation tools. Most of it is just speculation.

Detachment of air is a probable deduction. The issue is that under normal conditions there isn't detachment. So why is a tailwind causing that? Who knows.
I think what godlameroso was saying is that crosswinds and tailwinds are disturbing the high pressure fields at the back of the car and those fields are unable to direct the flow along the bodywork resulting in detachment. But like you said, it's mostly speculation so it's anyone's guess.

CjC
CjC
33
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:12 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:09 pm
I more often than not prefer Carlos’ outlook on the weekend/ aftermath of the races compared to Landos’ opinion.

For me I feel as if Lando isn’t in the fight, for example- I quote: ‘I won’t be shocked or worried when racing point come past us’
Not once does he say anything along the lines of ‘I’ll extract everything and more that I can to keep them behind’ à la Alonso or Hamilton.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... y71mS.html
And yet he's 4th in the WDC standings.
Well according to Lando that is because: ‘The first races of the season were more biased towards the tracks and the conditions that the car really liked’ - should be more positive about this, he deserves to be more positive- he’s earned the right to be more positive.
And as I have already said he expects the Racing Points to finish above him.

For me it I’m thinking ‘It’s Thursday of a race weekend what have the boys got to say?’
Sainz is all about getting into the car to test all the updates to improve he car (like he said in Thursday in Sochi)
Norris is all yea I won’t be surprised when Racing Point overtake me.

I’m just after some optimising (no predictions on competitiveness mind you) and starting the weekend on the right foot. If he gets beaten then fine he gave it his best shot rather than saying I told you so (pre-race)

Maybe me and Lando are victims of poor journalism and he did say positive things which were omitted from the article
Just a fan's point of view

Chicane
Chicane
77
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:21 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

No aerodynamicist here, but it's clear the high wind sensitivity is caused by a multitude of factors cos if it was a simple fix, McLaren would have fixed it long back. Basically every f1 car is sensitive wind and operates better in headwind and worse in tailwind but MCL35 struggles more resulting in big swing in performance due to change in wind direction.

Why i say it's a big factor is that McLaren have struggled with this issue even last season yet the issue still persists. The new aero upgrade when complete may help or give them better understanding.

They have conducted plenty of aero tests in various configurations to get to the bottom of the issue. Hopefully they will fix it by next year.
Quickshifter

User avatar
adrianjordan
99
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

CjC wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:37 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:12 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:09 pm
I more often than not prefer Carlos’ outlook on the weekend/ aftermath of the races compared to Landos’ opinion.

For me I feel as if Lando isn’t in the fight, for example- I quote: ‘I won’t be shocked or worried when racing point come past us’
Not once does he say anything along the lines of ‘I’ll extract everything and more that I can to keep them behind’ à la Alonso or Hamilton.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... y71mS.html
And yet he's 4th in the WDC standings.
Well according to Lando that is because: ‘The first races of the season were more biased towards the tracks and the conditions that the car really liked’ - should be more positive about this, he deserves to be more positive- he’s earned the right to be more positive.
And as I have already said he expects the Racing Points to finish above him.

For me it I’m thinking ‘It’s Thursday of a race weekend what have the boys got to say?’
Sainz is all about getting into the car to test all the updates to improve he car (like he said in Thursday in Sochi)
Norris is all yea I won’t be surprised when Racing Point overtake me.

I’m just after some optimising (no predictions on competitiveness mind you) and starting the weekend on the right foot. If he gets beaten then fine he gave it his best shot rather than saying I told you so (pre-race)

Maybe me and Lando are victims of poor journalism and he did say positive things which were omitted from the article
See whereas I prefer that measured, pragmatic approach to a race.

In the past McLaren have been criticised for over promising and under delivering, now Lando is being criticised for the opposite.

Can't win really 🤷🏻‍♂️
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

CjC
CjC
33
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

I’m going to agree with you on that though. Maybe it’s my delivery.

I like the new pragmatic views and hated the old over promising and under delivering none sense.
I like how they are realistic now, I know as much as anyone that we only have the 5th fastest car in general and we will inevitably be overhauled in the constructors.
It’s just the lack of fight, I feel he’s half rolled himself over for the inevitable rather than squaring up to it and I’ll say their names again à la Alonso and Hamilton. You don’t hear them saying on a Thursday that they are going to out on track a wollop everyone I know, but we know that they will do everything in their power to fight the opposition.
Basically I prefer Seidl and Sainzs press releases than Norris’. I like Lando and I’ll leave it there before people think I’m a hater which I am not.
Just a fan's point of view

Szabi1112
Szabi1112
-11
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:50 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Having seen the picture about car
‘s progress during the FP1, it was shocked to know. We can easily find ourselves on the 5th position of the constructor’s table

chrisgr
chrisgr
6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:07 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post

Szabi1112 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:20 am
Having seen the picture about car
‘s progress during the FP1, it was shocked to know. We can easily find ourselves on the 5th position of the constructor’s table
What FP1? Today's FP1? That was cancelled due to bad weather? I guess you are joking. And dont forget the fact that Mclaren is always slower during FP1. Anything can happen in the constructor's table, even if we improve our car. Others might improve their's even more. All I want it for both cars to finish. The best result will come.