Red Bull RB16

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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jjn9128
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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From linkedin, I think closes the hole theory (badum tshh) :lol:
Last week at the Eifel GP, mechanics of Red Bull Racing & Red Bull Technology revealed the underside of the RB16 front wing. As a result, various motorsport reporters were writing and the community started speculating about the features found on the photographs.

Being relatively new to the industry, this was a very unique way of appreciating the work I've done together with the talented people at Red Bull. It was interesting (and honestly also quite amusing) to read the people's interpretations of the features on the wing.
#aerogandalf
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SiLo
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:38 am
From linkedin, I think closes the hole theory (badum tshh) :lol:
Last week at the Eifel GP, mechanics of Red Bull Racing & Red Bull Technology revealed the underside of the RB16 front wing. As a result, various motorsport reporters were writing and the community started speculating about the features found on the photographs.

Being relatively new to the industry, this was a very unique way of appreciating the work I've done together with the talented people at Red Bull. It was interesting (and honestly also quite amusing) to read the people's interpretations of the features on the wing.
Honestly I'm amazed people thought it was one. Even more so for journalists who get to see this stuff with their own eyes.

But then they are just generating clicks, so maybe they don't care to fact check.
Felipe Baby!

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Blackout wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:28 am
SiLo wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:04 am
Amazed people think there is a vent there. It's quite obvious that it's just concave like the outermost edge of the endplate right next to it.
My first thought too... the concavity and the glossiness of the CF might be playing tricks with our eyes... but if you look at the other side of the wing, the concavity seems to be very deep... like a hole
And look at that recess (blue arrow)
https://i.imgur.com/xgwtpHQ.jpg
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp ... nt-win.jpg
More interesting than the front wing diffuser on the end plate underside, is the underside of the cape.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

bosyber
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:38 pm
Blackout wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:28 am
SiLo wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:04 am
Amazed people think there is a vent there. It's quite obvious that it's just concave like the outermost edge of the endplate right next to it.
My first thought too... the concavity and the glossiness of the CF might be playing tricks with our eyes... but if you look at the other side of the wing, the concavity seems to be very deep... like a hole
And look at that recess (blue arrow)
https://i.imgur.com/xgwtpHQ.jpg
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp ... nt-win.jpg
More interesting than the front wing diffuser on the end plate underside, is the underside of the cape.
Interesting indeed, and that seems a noticeable departure from the design of the Mercedes cape (who seem to guide air to the outside of it mostly, or do I recall incorrectly?) makes sense in that their car is quite different too, and because Red Bull tend to find their own way to develop, but interesting indeed.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:03 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:20 pm
I'd be amazed if they'd get away with a duct through the endplate like that.
Also air won't flow from a low pressure zone to a high pressure one... these "experts" really do steal their paycheques don't they.
It's called weight reduction where I live.

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:03 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:20 pm
I'd be amazed if they'd get away with a duct through the endplate like that.
Also air won't flow from a low pressure zone to a high pressure one... these "experts" really do steal their paycheques don't they.
It could be as simple as just a feature to prevent the footplate from stalling when the wing rubs on the ground.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Just_a_fan
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:27 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:03 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:20 pm
I'd be amazed if they'd get away with a duct through the endplate like that.
Also air won't flow from a low pressure zone to a high pressure one... these "experts" really do steal their paycheques don't they.
It could be as simple as just a feature to prevent the footplate from stalling when the wing rubs on the ground.
How?
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miguelalvesreis
miguelalvesreis
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Just_a_fan wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:27 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:03 pm
Also air won't flow from a low pressure zone to a high pressure one... these "experts" really do steal their paycheques don't they.
It could be as simple as just a feature to prevent the footplate from stalling when the wing rubs on the ground.
How?
Creates a 'buffer' where pressured air can go, delaying the stall

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aleks_ader
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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miguelalvesreis wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:10 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:27 pm


It could be as simple as just a feature to prevent the footplate from stalling when the wing rubs on the ground.
How?
Creates a 'buffer' where pressured air can go, delaying the stall

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I doubt that. 2kN or 5kN of force per corner on that section area would not do anything really. I m not sure how that would worked exactly.
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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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When the car turns, the front wing rolls with the car and scrapes on the ground, the raised section allows air to keep flowing, instead of making the space on the footplate directly touch the ground stalling the airflow underneath. At least that's what it looks like to me.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Sieper
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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I think it is mostly to speed up (and slow down) the flow, so aerofoil function, and perhaps it can in that way help to steer air away from the tire a bit, f.e. if you can help induce a vortex at the end of the endplate but it will certainly help when the wing is scraping (or simply very close to the ground) as it leaves more room then a possibly partly "sealed" flat surface.

It doesn't look just like a weight saving, anything but.
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jjn9128
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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It's not a vortex generator. How can a dip induce a vortex!?

Godlamerso is right. The underside of the footplate can produce a big pressure spike and flow separation when the car pitches and rolls about, especially when it's close to the ground as red bull's is due to their high rake.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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etusch
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Red Bull concept at the end?
The teams are already preparing for 2021 at full speed. 2022 is just around the corner. Which concept will prevail in the future? A lot of employment like at Red Bull or little like at Mercedes? We give answers.
Mercedes has already stopped developing the 2020 car. Racing Point and Renault too. Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren cheerfully continue to upgrade. Although they are stealing wind tunnel time for 2021. Your argument: Everything that comes to the car now will also pay off in the next year.

Originally, the plan of many teams was to prepare the big upgrade for 2021 and then to switch to the completely new concept for 2022 from January 1, 2021. But the serious cuts in the underbody for next year's cars have messed up this plan for many teams.

Also at Racing Point. Head of Technology Andy Green will definitely reserve wind tunnel time for the 2021 car in the coming year. Even if the season has already started. The cut that the FIA ​​has decreed to prevent the downforce from exploding is too significant for one stage of development to be sufficient to compensate for it.

Two different racing cars
Green estimates that you would lose over a second if you retrofitted the underbody around the rear wheels and the diffuser as required by the 2021 rules. "We will lose downforce in the rear. It will not be easy to compensate for that completely because you lose a lot of surface area. But we believe it will be possible."


In contrast to Red Bull, Mercedes relies on an aero concept with little employment in the rear.
At Racing Point, that will happen in at least two major stages, possibly followed by minor adjustments. "We will definitely build a presentation car and a season-opening car. The new aero rules require bigger changes than expected. Because the details were only approved a few weeks ago, we cannot get everything ready for the winter test We will have the first aero approval for the presentation car ready in a month. "

"But that's not the end of the development. I even expect further small development steps in the first half of the 2021 season. In the first step, so much downforce is lost that we are now back at the bottom of a very steep learning curve. That calls for upgrades, which doesn't help save money. "

Which aero concept suffers more?
While the trend at the moment is more towards reducing the angle of attack based on the Mercedes model, Green is not yet sure whether this will continue next year. "The new rules could punish us more than the cars with a higher rack. Some of the parts that disappear under the floor make less of a difference to the cars with a higher rack than to the concept of Mercedes and us." So good news for the Red Bull Group? Answer Green: "Probably the other side argues exactly the other way around."

But one thing is certain: in 2022 all cars will drive lower on the rear axle. That was also the reason that made Racing Point change its concept for this season. "With the 2022 rules, you can forget about a higher rack. This is a ground effect car that works according to completely new rules." Red Bull guru Adrian Newey will have to renounce his philosophy, believes his colleague from Racing Point: "We all know how ground-effect cars work. They have to drive as close as possible to the road."

McLaren has already carried out initial tests in Belgium with an underbody cut like in 2021.
It will be exciting to see which of the different development roadmaps will ultimately prevail. Is it an advantage to have left the development of the current car early on? Green believes: "We have been working in the CFD simulation and in the wind tunnel on the 2021 car for five weeks in order to prevent us from going into the next season behind and being forced to catch up."

Large teams have to limit themselves
This is especially true for a small team that cannot afford parallel developments. The very limited wind tunnel times and CFD capacities also play a trick on large teams like Red Bull. "Red Bull is theoretically able to run two programs at the same time, but the aerodynamic restrictions and the token rule will prevent them from doing so. You have to choose one or the other. It doesn't matter how big your team is. The rules are very restrictive. "

A new factor will be added in the aerodynamics development next year. The world championship position decides how much wind tunnel
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... 1-konzept/

lio007
lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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They might have tested a 21-spec floor yesterday in FP1:
Image

lio007
lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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And their front brake ducts are really big:
Image