General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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Big Tea
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What strikes me about All new cars is how BIG they are. The world is full of big cars, where are the good small to mid ones gone
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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etusch
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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:54 pm
What strikes me about All new cars is how BIG they are. The world is full of big cars, where are the good small to mid ones gone
when every segment went upper level size, if you want to have same size with your old one then you need to go a segment down then it is almost ok if only matter is size.
I like typeR's ( more power, bigger engine, more cylinders (until 8') are always my favorite) but they were 3 doors until last 2 gen. If I have 2 car it is not important but if I can have only one 5 door ones are better for me. If I could I would buy a typeR with 5 doors and I wouldn't bother anything comes with it. My current civic is also has very hard suspensions. I have 2 kids and sometimes I want to have a bit more space with the car. But generally I am okey with it. I like suvs but I like grip more than space. D segment is ideal for me and bigger than that is just out of my interest. I am only one of millions of potential buyers and I think they are getting data all the time for this.

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Marti_EF3
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Well, my Civic is not for going with kids. I've only the front seats, and it's now homologated as a 2 seat car. Less weight, more fun. Now my car is around 880kg. :?

But it's a pain to warm up the rear tires. I've been trying few setups with pressures and toe. Also it's very important because I've an oversteer configuration to help with corner entry. Being a FWD, it's the best way I'm confortable dealing corners without having understeer, and also I can put throttle earlier. But it's not the usual setup people do with a Civic.

P.S. Also I'm going -4.15° camber on front :lol:

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Big Tea
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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:42 pm
Well, my Civic is not for going with kids. I've only the front seats, and it's now homologated as a 2 seat car. Less weight, more fun. Now my car is around 880kg. :?

But it's a pain to warm up the rear tires. I've been trying few setups with pressures and toe. Also it's very important because I've an oversteer configuration to help with corner entry. Being a FWD, it's the best way I'm confortable dealing corners without having understeer, and also I can put throttle earlier. But it's not the usual setup people do with a Civic.

P.S. Also I'm going -4.15° camber on front :lol:
From what I see of Civics, I would assume the tyre problem is not helped by huge rims and tiny rubber band profile tyres. I look at some and wonder this quite often ( not jumping to the conclusion this is in your case )
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

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Marti_EF3
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I wear 195/50/15 at the four wheels. I never liked huge rims, less on a 80's or 90's civic. But even with that, the rears are fuc**** cold when the fronts are on the right temperature. I think I need to go more agressive on toe to warm a bit more the rears... I'm using semi-slick tires, and now I'm going 1.9 bar front and 1.7 bar rear with pressures. But it's hard to find a sweet spot :roll:

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PlatinumZealot
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Try put more load on the rears. Your can readuc the grip in the front. Or soften up the rear roll bar maybe.

I had an EG SiR as a fun car.. I had nothing special in terms of suspension, basically stock but it was such a quick and nimble car. But I felt very unsafe inside of it. It was like paper and it was so small it got ran over by big pick up twice! I sold it because i felt my luck was running out.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Marti_EF3
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:27 pm
Try put more load on the rears. Your can readuc the grip in the front. Or soften up the rear roll bar maybe.

I had an EG SiR as a fun car.. I had nothing special in terms of suspension, basically stock but it was such a quick and nimble car. But I felt very unsafe inside of it. It was like paper and it was so small it got ran over by big pick up twice! I sold it because i felt my luck was running out.
It's scary to drive old cars, right?? :lol: But you feel everything, is what I like of it. But you're right, they are smoking paper compared to modern cars if you have a minimum accident :lol:

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bigblue
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Gorgeous car. I like that generation and the next (5G), the Civic VTi was lovely.

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JordanMugen
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:27 pm
I had an EG SiR as a fun car.. I had nothing special in terms of suspension, basically stock but it was such a quick and nimble car. But I felt very unsafe inside of it. It was like paper and it was so small it got ran over by big pick up twice! I sold it because i felt my luck was running out.
I don't feel unsafe driving my EG Civic on the road at all.

I feel a little more concerned about the lack of crashworthiness for circuit driving, however the EG's full tubular side-intrusion bars are very impressive, and quite different to the pressed steel items on modern cars.

Anyway Honda could increase their sporty hatch market share by offering a Jazz Si 1.5T for the Fiesta ST crowd, and a black leather/sunroof/optional autobox/no bodykit/maybe SH-AWD Civic Type S 2.0T for the Golf R crowd. I wonder why they don't? :?:
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:00 am
I wear 195/50/15 at the four wheels.
Same as me! :)

Have you considered 205/50 R15 or 195/55 R15?

How aggressively is your chassis setup for oversteer? It's possible to overdo these things so maybe you could reduce rear swaybar size or rear spring rate a little bit?

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Marti_EF3
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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:00 pm

Same as me! :)

Have you considered 205/50 R15 or 195/55 R15?

How aggressively is your chassis setup for oversteer? It's possible to overdo these things so maybe you could reduce rear swaybar size or rear spring rate a little bit?
Currently I've OEM front sway bar (I think it's 17mm) and a 22mm rear sway bar. Also I've a lot of negative front camber (-4.15) compared to rear (-1.5). Also I've coilovers with 8kg springs rear and front. I've more parts to put in, but because of this pandemic and other things I've stopped working on it. I've an helicoidal LSD from a limited edition CRX from japan, 4.5 final drive, semi-ceramic clutch and a light weight flywheel.

But I'm not sure how to end the chasis setup, because the oversteer helps a LOT in cornering, but have that side effects...

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bigblue
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Sounds like Button, need the set-up just so, then you're super-fast ;-)

For anyone who's interested there's an article on the hondaracingf1 site about the last time they were in Mugello (2003), with some nice pics to remember the BAR Honda days.

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JordanMugen
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Marti_EF3 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:22 pm
Currently I've OEM front sway bar (I think it's 17mm) and a 22mm rear sway bar. Also I've a lot of negative front camber (-4.15) compared to rear (-1.5). Also I've coilovers with 8kg springs rear and front. I've more parts to put in, but because of this pandemic and other things I've stopped working on it. I've an helicoidal LSD from a limited edition CRX from japan, 4.5 final drive, semi-ceramic clutch and a light weight flywheel.

But I'm not sure how to end the chasis setup, because the oversteer helps a LOT in cornering, but have that side effects...
Very interesting! :D

Don't FWD race cars normally run the huge -4 deg negative camber on the rear, to reduce rear tyre grip and (perhaps) speed up rear tyre warmup? With, instead, normal amounts of camber (-2, -2.5 deg) up front?

While can having a massively bigger rear sway bar than front cause some handling weirdness? Not just the rear axle wanting to overtake the front, but also causing weirdness and inducing plough understeer in other parts of the corner? :)

My spring rates on the EG are 9kg/mm up front (1.95 Hz by my estimate) and 8kg/mm at the rear (2.6 Hz?), and that already feels plenty pointy to me... I can only imagine what going slightly softer up front and adding a (relatively) huge rear sway bar would do! :shock: :o Sounds like a most exciting setup you have! =D>

Have you considered fitting an aftermarket front sway bar as well, to even the car out? :?:

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:00 am
I'm using semi-slick tires, and now I'm going 1.9 bar front and 1.7 bar rear with pressures. But it's hard to find a sweet spot :roll:
Then having backed off the amount of oversteer, perhaps you could up the rear tyre pressure and then the rears would warm up faster? :?:

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Marti_EF3
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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:39 am
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:22 pm
Currently I've OEM front sway bar (I think it's 17mm) and a 22mm rear sway bar. Also I've a lot of negative front camber (-4.15) compared to rear (-1.5). Also I've coilovers with 8kg springs rear and front. I've more parts to put in, but because of this pandemic and other things I've stopped working on it. I've an helicoidal LSD from a limited edition CRX from japan, 4.5 final drive, semi-ceramic clutch and a light weight flywheel.

But I'm not sure how to end the chasis setup, because the oversteer helps a LOT in cornering, but have that side effects...
Very interesting! :D

Don't FWD race cars normally run the huge -4 deg negative camber on the rear, to reduce rear tyre grip and (perhaps) speed up rear tyre warmup? With, instead, normal amounts of camber (-2, -2.5 deg) up front?

While can having a massively bigger rear sway bar than front cause some handling weirdness? Not just the rear axle wanting to overtake the front, but also causing weirdness and inducing plough understeer in other parts of the corner? :)

My spring rates on the EG are 9kg/mm up front (1.95 Hz by my estimate) and 8kg/mm at the rear (2.6 Hz?), and that already feels plenty pointy to me... I can only imagine what going slightly softer up front and adding a (relatively) huge rear sway bar would do! :shock: :o Sounds like a most exciting setup you have! =D>

Have you considered fitting an aftermarket front sway bar as well, to even the car out? :?:

Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:00 am
I'm using semi-slick tires, and now I'm going 1.9 bar front and 1.7 bar rear with pressures. But it's hard to find a sweet spot :roll:
Then having backed off the amount of oversteer, perhaps you could up the rear tyre pressure and then the rears would warm up faster? :?:
The Gr.A Civics on Japan were running a similar setup, having a more oversteer behavior. I don't feel any strange handling, I did in a way I'm confortable with it. I like driving with this setup, the rear slide a bit helping to turn. But I'd like the rears to be a bit warm...

I know it's not the usual setup you find in a FWD car, but I like to go with the unusual ways, like the old school Gr.A dangerous setups, also they were running a lot of rear camber, but I need to buy rear adjustable camber arm :lol: The main problem is with slow corners. I've been on Barcelona several times, and the final chicane I did spin two times due too much oversteer

With the pressures, I thought going with a little less pressure would help warm the tires faster
Last edited by Marti_EF3 on Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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do people use rear-wheel toe ?

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Marti_EF3
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That's the Gr.A Civic EA-T (3th Gen) with the same engine than mine. Rear camber is also massive. And I love that sound with the agressive cam =P~



And here the EG



And... :twisted: