[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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CjC wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm
JRindt wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:18 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:04 pm


Lol

Lando has a ton of points and Sainz has also made mistakes this year.

He aborted because he thought he could go faster. He gambled and lost. No snowflake, just poor judgement.
He aborted on the final run too, when could’ve taken the flag. I think he also did 2 green sectors in the first two on that run.
Regardless, he should’ve taken the flag. I was kind of stumped that he didn’t #-o
He should always take the flag regardless of what happens, I’ve seen him do this in practice which isn’t ideal but he should NEVER EVER do it in qualifying.
What’s the point in pitting?? Just to cower in the corner crying??

I got shouted down on here mid season for calling Lando out for not seeming to have a lot of fight in him, for being more inclined to roll over and take it rather than taking one on the chin- well surely this is proving my point?

Needless to say I’m furious with him right now
I agree, just disagree for the snowflake remark. Call him for what he is, he lacks judgment and seems to be a little bit immature and is lacking the edge or judgement that growing up brings. He's very talented, and he is getting faster. Ric will push him more and I suspect he will learn more. Mclaren are perhaps a bit too nice with him on face value and he do well to get a smacked bottom a bit more often (Assuming it doesn't, it doesn't appear so).
Last edited by mwillems on Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Macklaren wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:18 pm
Interesting ... Team considering fitting a new engine and gearbox for Lando. Will send him to the back of the grid but will give him a little more power. Looks like the team is confident of car pace and ability to pass despite the DRS train
Makes perfect sense to do that, I hope they do.

I was pondering that after FP2.

the EDGE
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:25 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:18 pm
Interesting ... Team considering fitting a new engine and gearbox for Lando. Will send him to the back of the grid but will give him a little more power. Looks like the team is confident of car pace and ability to pass despite the DRS train
Makes perfect sense to do that, I hope they do.

I was pondering that after FP2.
If they took a new engine would the new rules on engine modes allow a change in power mode after quali or would they have to keep the same settings?

mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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the EDGE wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:37 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:25 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:18 pm
Interesting ... Team considering fitting a new engine and gearbox for Lando. Will send him to the back of the grid but will give him a little more power. Looks like the team is confident of car pace and ability to pass despite the DRS train
Makes perfect sense to do that, I hope they do.

I was pondering that after FP2.
If they took a new engine would the new rules on engine modes allow a change in power mode after quali or would they have to keep the same settings?
I think the settings would apply to the weekend and not the parts, but I do not know that for sure.

SmallSoldier
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
CjC wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm
JRindt wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:18 pm
He aborted on the final run too, when could’ve taken the flag. I think he also did 2 green sectors in the first two on that run.
Regardless, he should’ve taken the flag. I was kind of stumped that he didn’t #-o
He should always take the flag regardless of what happens, I’ve seen him do this in practice which isn’t ideal but he should NEVER EVER do it in qualifying.
What’s the point in pitting?? Just to cower in the corner crying??

I got shouted down on here mid season for calling Lando out for not seeming to have a lot of fight in him, for being more inclined to roll over and take it rather than taking one on the chin- well surely this is proving my point?

Needless to say I’m furious with him right now
I agree, just disagree for the snowflake remark. Call him for what he is, he lacks judgment and seems to be a little bit immature and is lacking the edge or judgement that growing up brings. He's very talented, and he is getting faster. Ric will push him more and I suspect he will learn more. Mclaren are perhaps a bit too nice with him on face value and he do well to get a smacked bottom a bit more often (Assuming it doesn't, it doesn't appear so).
No one knows how the discussions go inside the team... If the team is been soft or harsh with him, those discussions are behind close doors and I’m glad that they don’t vent on the drivers publicly like other teams


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mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:42 pm
mwillems wrote:
CjC wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm


He should always take the flag regardless of what happens, I’ve seen him do this in practice which isn’t ideal but he should NEVER EVER do it in qualifying.
What’s the point in pitting?? Just to cower in the corner crying??

I got shouted down on here mid season for calling Lando out for not seeming to have a lot of fight in him, for being more inclined to roll over and take it rather than taking one on the chin- well surely this is proving my point?

Needless to say I’m furious with him right now
I agree, just disagree for the snowflake remark. Call him for what he is, he lacks judgment and seems to be a little bit immature and is lacking the edge or judgement that growing up brings. He's very talented, and he is getting faster. Ric will push him more and I suspect he will learn more. Mclaren are perhaps a bit too nice with him on face value and he do well to get a smacked bottom a bit more often (Assuming it doesn't, it doesn't appear so).
No one knows how the discussions go inside the team... If the team is been soft or harsh with him, those discussions are behind close doors and I’m glad that they don’t vent on the drivers publicly like other teams



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Yes this much is obvious, but there other signs such as his approach and demeanor which have not really changed like they would by someone having a little pressure applied.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:43 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:42 pm
mwillems wrote:
I agree, just disagree for the snowflake remark. Call him for what he is, he lacks judgment and seems to be a little bit immature and is lacking the edge or judgement that growing up brings. He's very talented, and he is getting faster. Ric will push him more and I suspect he will learn more. Mclaren are perhaps a bit too nice with him on face value and he do well to get a smacked bottom a bit more often (Assuming it doesn't, it doesn't appear so).
No one knows how the discussions go inside the team... If the team is been soft or harsh with him, those discussions are behind close doors and I’m glad that they don’t vent on the drivers publicly like other teams



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes this much is obvious, but there other signs such as his approach and demeanor which have not really changed like they would by someone having a little pressure applied.
I think a couple of seasons alongside Danny will help him lots. He takes things lightly which is good, but he does not have experience of digging in.
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

billamend
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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I do agree that Lando needs to be a bit more aggressive, but you can't have it both ways: he almost always brings points home and a lot of that is because he is cautious and consistent.

The things that are written here on him shock me. He is a 21y old that is neck and neck with a super consistent (and fast) Carlos Sainz, (almost) never makes mistakes, never crashes (on his own), (almost) always in Q3. He had a terrible weekend with reliability issues, and he had a lot of bad luck in this 2nd half of the season. He is always harsh on himself.

No he is no Max Verstappen (or Hamilton, or even Ricciardo), but the MCL35 is no BR16 (or W11) either.

mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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billamend wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:34 pm


I do agree that Lando needs to be a bit more aggressive, but you can't have it both ways: he almost always brings points home and a lot of that is because he is cautious and consistent.

The things that are written here on him shock me. He is a 21y old that is neck and neck with a super consistent (and fast) Carlos Sainz, (almost) never makes mistakes, never crashes (on his own), (almost) always in Q3. He had a terrible weekend with reliability issues, and he had a lot of bad luck in this 2nd half of the season. He is always harsh on himself.

No he is no Max Verstappen (or Hamilton, or even Ricciardo), but the MCL35 is no BR16 (or W11) either.
I think that some people carry the feeling that there is just a little something lacking that would go a long way, and it doesn't seem like that side is developing too much. I feel like he is a great talent, but I do feel like there is a side to his personality, or approach, which isn't developing as it should.

You know what it is, it's those flashes, those moments where you think, I can see that something a little bit special. We saw it in Austria, and we haven't really seen it since. I think I have spoken about it before, about him coming out of his shell and imposing himself a little bit more in the team. And it may be a result of the happy families situation that Mclaren seem to have become, or at least is portrayed. Perhaps the edge that could be there is not being promoted enough or there isn't enough of a sharper competition.

The think I like about Danny Ric, is that he is playful, but there is needle in his playfulness and some psychology, it will be interesting to see how Lando reacts. Or perhaps he just needs someone that will push him more than Carlos.

billamend
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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mwillems wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:16 am
I think that some people carry the feeling that there is just a little something lacking that would go a long way, and it doesn't seem like that side is developing too much. I feel like he is a great talent, but I do feel like there is a side to his personality, or approach, which isn't developing as it should.

You know what it is, it's those flashes, those moments where you think, I can see that something a little bit special. We saw it in Austria, and we haven't really seen it since. I think I have spoken about it before, about him coming out of his shell and imposing himself a little bit more in the team. And it may be a result of the happy families situation that Mclaren seem to have become, or at least is portrayed. Perhaps the edge that could be there is not being promoted enough or there isn't enough of a sharper competition.

The think I like about Danny Ric, is that he is playful, but there is needle in his playfulness and some psychology, it will be interesting to see how Lando reacts. Or perhaps he just needs someone that will push him more than Carlos.
I agree with everything you said, and I think next year Ricciardo might make him come out of his shell a bit. Ricciardo will not be a team player as Carlos is, and that will force Lando to also become a bit more aggressive.

But I rather have this sustained and consistent growth than him being aggressive when he doesn't have the means to do so. And again, you can't have it both ways: he's not a Verstappen that will go for it and has an edge, but then can't wait one extra corner to pass Perez (Istanbul this year). To me he is more of a Prost than a Senna (not comparing quality), but he need to be put out of his comfort zone to sharpen a bit.

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djos
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Since when is Daniel not a team player? What rubbish!

There’s been many occasions where he and his team mate have swapped positions to have a go at another driver and then handed that position back when he’s been unable to take advantage.

Not many other drivers will keep their word and hand that position back to their team mate.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

ThePapayaJaguar
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Yeah, Lando should have never aborted his final Q2 lap. IIRC, he was only 0.144 tenths down on Ocon after Sector 2. We seem to be running higher downforce than the others because Carlos lost about a tenth on Ricciardo on the long straight in Sector 3 during Q3.

Hopefully, we can snag some good points like last week.

Ground Effect
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Bad qualifying by Lando no doubt, but even when he’s does OK, people always find something to bash him with, so after yesterday it’s expected. It’s strange that when he has a bad qualifying, a start or a race, people criticise his performance as if it’s been the rule, not the exception. He has as many Q3 appearances as Carlos, Albon, (in a much quicker car) more than Stroll. People seem to use his personality to attack him when he has a bad day, which is strange. Just like saying Ricciardo is too laid back, that’s why he got beaten by Max in their last year together.
There’s a myth going around that he isn’t improving, which is false. He’s achieved his best qualifying this year, first podium, more points in fewer races, is even ahead of his team mate at the moment, and still with a chance to beat him. No other team consistently in the points have team mates that are so close to each other. For some odd reason people expect Lando to be thrashing Carlos, why though? Because Carlos is so bad? Whatever mistakes he made yesterday he’s being beaten with a much bigger stick than he deserves. He’s in his 2nd year of F1, one crash in an FP session, one collision with Stroll in Barcelona last year, that’s about it. People criticise his starts, but if you analyse things properly, Lando would have a lot more DNF’s rather than mere lost places at the start if it wasn’t for his approach. A few times he’s avoided a crash and settled for lost places. Cut the kid some slack, he’s doing OK.
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mwillems
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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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Ground Effect wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:44 am
Bad qualifying by Lando no doubt, but even when he’s does OK, people always find something to bash him with, so after yesterday it’s expected. It’s strange that when he has a bad qualifying, a start or a race, people criticise his performance as if it’s been the rule, not the exception. He has as many Q3 appearances as Carlos, Albon, (in a much quicker car) more than Stroll. People seem to use his personality to attack him when he has a bad day, which is strange. Just like saying Ricciardo is too laid back, that’s why he got beaten by Max in their last year together.
There’s a myth going around that he isn’t improving, which is false. He’s achieved his best qualifying this year, first podium, more points in fewer races, is even ahead of his team mate at the moment, and still with a chance to beat him. No other team consistently in the points have team mates that are so close to each other. For some odd reason people expect Lando to be thrashing Carlos, why though? Because Carlos is so bad? Whatever mistakes he made yesterday he’s being beaten with a much bigger stick than he deserves. He’s in his 2nd year of F1, one crash in an FP session, one collision with Stroll in Barcelona last year, that’s about it. People criticise his starts, but if you analyse things properly, Lando would have a lot more DNF’s rather than mere lost places at the start if it wasn’t for his approach. A few times he’s avoided a crash and settled for lost places. Cut the kid some slack, he’s doing OK.
I'm not attacking him, and he doesn't need defending. It's a discussion as far as I am concerned, with opinions, which are assumed not to be any kind of fact.

But I do think that he is mentally not quite where he should be, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate his talent or how good he can be. I started this conversation disagreeing with snowflake remarks, stating that I don't think he lacks bravery. I do think, and it isn't an attack, it's an observation, that he has some work to do to get a little bit more edgy, or independent and try to impose himself a little more, be a bit more selfish. I think his driving and his results would benefit from a little more aggression, and not just in overtakes but in his driving in general.

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Re: [ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:42 pm
mwillems wrote:
CjC wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm


He should always take the flag regardless of what happens, I’ve seen him do this in practice which isn’t ideal but he should NEVER EVER do it in qualifying.
What’s the point in pitting?? Just to cower in the corner crying??

I got shouted down on here mid season for calling Lando out for not seeming to have a lot of fight in him, for being more inclined to roll over and take it rather than taking one on the chin- well surely this is proving my point?

Needless to say I’m furious with him right now
I agree, just disagree for the snowflake remark. Call him for what he is, he lacks judgment and seems to be a little bit immature and is lacking the edge or judgement that growing up brings. He's very talented, and he is getting faster. Ric will push him more and I suspect he will learn more. Mclaren are perhaps a bit too nice with him on face value and he do well to get a smacked bottom a bit more often (Assuming it doesn't, it doesn't appear so).
No one knows how the discussions go inside the team... If the team is been soft or harsh with him, those discussions are behind close doors and I’m glad that they don’t vent on the drivers publicly like other teams


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I agree with that smallsoldier. We have no idea, internally, how McLaren are handling him.

It's also the first time he's screwed up in quali, not like he's making a habit of it. He's gonna make mistakes.

Also with regards to him not finishing the lap. He has his co-pilot/Engineer not to mention the whole team there. They have alot more info than we do and he's not alone in making that decision, if it was his choice at all.