2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Mogster
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Although I’d have liked to see Russell win the puncture late on did let him display everything he has in his armoury.

We had him making a good start leading from the front, managing the pace and tyres, then racing in the pack pulling some overtakes, all of his skills as a driver were on display and mightily impressive it was.

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ringo
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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I feel bad for bottas, but i wont say from this one race that russel is the better driver. Russel was on a high for this race, and Bottas let Russel get into his head and he fluffed the race. The fear of being compared, and possibly the pressure for him to try and blow russel out of the water is what done him in.
I would like to see both race again for abudahbi, this time with bottas being his usual cool coffee sipping self.
He did poorly this race, poorer than usual. Russel did what he had to do, but at the same time i do think Bottas would have caught him. This race is akin to so many new kids on the block races like hamilton vs alonso, vettel vs riciardo, etc. The incumbent usually lets the new guy with nothing to lose get inside his head and end up performing worse than they should.
For Sure!!

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strad
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Well if he let all that get into his head that is a weakness is it not?
Russell did a good job and deserves to feel gutted.
I hope Lewis stays out for the next race so we can get another chance to judge. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
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nevill3
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Well done Checo and Ocon, Gutted for George but thats racing. It would be best for George if Lewis drives the next race. Bottas will not have the chance to rectify the damage this weekend inflicted to his reputation if he has to race Lewis again.
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zibby43
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Credit to peke_f1

I said a few weeks ago, and a few weeks before that, that George possessed the racecraft to be just as good on Sunday as he was on Saturday.

I think people severely underestimate how bad the Williams is at race starts, and how easy it is for that car to go backward on Sundays after qualifying ahead of where it should be on Saturday.

LEC’s lap this past Saturday for P4? Russell is basically doing the equivalent every Saturday in a Williams.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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In my lifetime, I will not support a sportsman like I did Schumacher. He was my childhood hero. What I do today in my life, a lot of its ethos is derived from seeing him. How meticulous and detailed he was. But, in my heart I know Lewis has achieved more and through his sheer willingness to accept more competition will probably and should be regarded as the best ever.

But, during the Schumacher days, he was a villain and his team mate's uselessness was almost used against his brilliance. I saw shades of it when Webber was unable to beat Vettel. But the sheer desperation among some fans to make Bottas look like this amazing driver I have never seen. It is beyond pathetic. A guy walks in and basically owns him and people are just clinging on to Abu Dhabi hoping Bottas puts a Hamilton on him. Newsflash!! He should have been doing that at Sakhir as well and the constant excuses for failure frankly sounds unbelievably desperate.

I think personally, Hamilton deserves his dominant cars. He's just earned it. Perhaps, he even deserves a lapdog. I don't think Russell is beating Hamilton over a year but I think what really *pisses off* most fans is the continuous pretence from Mercedes, Toto and Lewis that Valtteri is a "challenger." It's an absolute joke. I know a lot of fans will be on Hamilton's case if Russell beats Bottas at Abu Dhabi and I'm not going to be one of those but by god I swear some fans really push you to question the last few championships.

Just to put it out there- What is George to do if Red Bull offer him a race seat for 2021? Mercedes have already wasted Wehrlein. I think Ocon had done more than enough to be in a Mercedes already and I think it's just unbelievable that Russell doesn't get in the seat in 2021. Sure, he could be there in 2022, but Mercedes are being extremely arrogant and George extremely juvenile if he thinks that this dominance is forever. It might change.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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zibby43 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:18 pm
https://streamable.com/d43jol

Credit to peke_f1

I said a few weeks ago, and a few weeks before that, that George possessed the racecraft to be just as good on Sunday as he was on Saturday.

I think people severely underestimate how bad the Williams is at race starts, and how easy it is for that car to go backward on Sundays after qualifying ahead of where it should be on Saturday.

LEC’s lap this past Saturday for P4? Russell is basically doing the equivalent every Saturday in a Williams.
Results are everything in F1. Lewis' seasons of 2007, 2012 and 2018 are much much more valuable than 19 and 20. But, he became champion then so it's rose tinted glasses and all that.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

MikeTekRacing
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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zibby43 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:18 pm
https://streamable.com/d43jol

Credit to peke_f1

I said a few weeks ago, and a few weeks before that, that George possessed the racecraft to be just as good on Sunday as he was on Saturday.

I think people severely underestimate how bad the Williams is at race starts, and how easy it is for that car to go backward on Sundays after qualifying ahead of where it should be on Saturday.

LEC’s lap this past Saturday for P4? Russell is basically doing the equivalent every Saturday in a Williams.
Russel did a great race, but that clip is unfair to Bottas. He was on very old hards, that lost all the temperature being taken off the car.

Wil992
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm
In my lifetime, I will not support a sportsman like I did Schumacher. He was my childhood hero. What I do today in my life, a lot of its ethos is derived from seeing him. How meticulous and detailed he was. But, in my heart I know Lewis has achieved more and through his sheer willingness to accept more competition will probably and should be regarded as the best ever.

But, during the Schumacher days, he was a villain and his team mate's uselessness was almost used against his brilliance. I saw shades of it when Webber was unable to beat Vettel. But the sheer desperation among some fans to make Bottas look like this amazing driver I have never seen. It is beyond pathetic. A guy walks in and basically owns him and people are just clinging on to Abu Dhabi hoping Bottas puts a Hamilton on him. Newsflash!! He should have been doing that at Sakhir as well and the constant excuses for failure frankly sounds unbelievably desperate.

I think personally, Hamilton deserves his dominant cars. He's just earned it. Perhaps, he even deserves a lapdog. I don't think Russell is beating Hamilton over a year but I think what really *pisses off* most fans is the continuous pretence from Mercedes, Toto and Lewis that Valtteri is a "challenger." It's an absolute joke. I know a lot of fans will be on Hamilton's case if Russell beats Bottas at Abu Dhabi and I'm not going to be one of those but by god I swear some fans really push you to question the last few championships.

Just to put it out there- What is George to do if Red Bull offer him a race seat for 2021? Mercedes have already wasted Wehrlein. I think Ocon had done more than enough to be in a Mercedes already and I think it's just unbelievable that Russell doesn't get in the seat in 2021. Sure, he could be there in 2022, but Mercedes are being extremely arrogant and George extremely juvenile if he thinks that this dominance is forever. It might change.
Hard to argue with any of that, apart from the part about liking Schumacher. 😀

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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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MikeTekRacing wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:43 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:18 pm
https://streamable.com/d43jol

Credit to peke_f1

I said a few weeks ago, and a few weeks before that, that George possessed the racecraft to be just as good on Sunday as he was on Saturday.

I think people severely underestimate how bad the Williams is at race starts, and how easy it is for that car to go backward on Sundays after qualifying ahead of where it should be on Saturday.

LEC’s lap this past Saturday for P4? Russell is basically doing the equivalent every Saturday in a Williams.
Russel did a great race, but that clip is unfair to Bottas. He was on very old hards, that lost all the temperature being taken off the car.
Agreed it does not show Bottas in a good light, but it does show Russell has no nerves when it comes to doing what is needed. Not only was he ready and able to do it, but he was not overly aggressive like he had to prove himself against Bottas
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm

Just to put it out there- What is George to do if Red Bull offer him a race seat for 2021? Mercedes have already wasted Wehrlein. I think Ocon had done more than enough to be in a Mercedes already and I think it's just unbelievable that Russell doesn't get in the seat in 2021. Sure, he could be there in 2022, but Mercedes are being extremely arrogant and George extremely juvenile if he thinks that this dominance is forever. It might change.

If that happens, George then goes to Mercedes and says, RedBull have a seat for 2021, What can you do Toto? Toto then offers George a 100% contract in the Mercedes for 2022 and says, its up to you George. Only an idiot would take the RedBull seat with a Merc contract on the table for 2022 and a year in Williams for 2021. So Horner has no chance.
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Mogster
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:49 pm
MikeTekRacing wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:43 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:18 pm
https://streamable.com/d43jol

Credit to peke_f1

I said a few weeks ago, and a few weeks before that, that George possessed the racecraft to be just as good on Sunday as he was on Saturday.

I think people severely underestimate how bad the Williams is at race starts, and how easy it is for that car to go backward on Sundays after qualifying ahead of where it should be on Saturday.

LEC’s lap this past Saturday for P4? Russell is basically doing the equivalent every Saturday in a Williams.
Russel did a great race, but that clip is unfair to Bottas. He was on very old hards, that lost all the temperature being taken off the car.
Agreed it does not show Bottas in a good light, but it does show Russell has no nerves when it comes to doing what is needed. Not only was he ready and able to do it, but he was not overly aggressive like he had to prove himself against Bottas
Without the flat how far up the road could Russell have got though? I feel we were deprived of a last lap fight for the lead between George and Perez.

zibby43
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:49 pm
MikeTekRacing wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:43 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:18 pm
https://streamable.com/d43jol

Credit to peke_f1

I said a few weeks ago, and a few weeks before that, that George possessed the racecraft to be just as good on Sunday as he was on Saturday.

I think people severely underestimate how bad the Williams is at race starts, and how easy it is for that car to go backward on Sundays after qualifying ahead of where it should be on Saturday.

LEC’s lap this past Saturday for P4? Russell is basically doing the equivalent every Saturday in a Williams.
Russel did a great race, but that clip is unfair to Bottas. He was on very old hards, that lost all the temperature being taken off the car.
Agreed it does not show Bottas in a good light, but it does show Russell has no nerves when it comes to doing what is needed. Not only was he ready and able to do it, but he was not overly aggressive like he had to prove himself against Bottas
Yes, the point of that clip wasn't to crap on Bottas.

It was to show how gritty that move was by Russell. It's where and how he did it. It took guts, but it was performed with aplomb.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm
Just to put it out there- What is George to do if Red Bull offer him a race seat for 2021? Mercedes have already wasted Wehrlein. I think Ocon had done more than enough to be in a Mercedes already and I think it's just unbelievable that Russell doesn't get in the seat in 2021. Sure, he could be there in 2022, but Mercedes are being extremely arrogant and George extremely juvenile if he thinks that this dominance is forever. It might change.
Nothing, because Russell has a contract with Williams for 2021.

Russell isn't a "free agent" for next year.

And even if Mercedes' dominance doesn't last due to the 2022 rules shakeup, that's where the talent of someone like Russell makes the difference.

Jolle
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Re: 2020 Sakhir Grand Prix - Sakhir, Dec 04 - 06

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm
In my lifetime, I will not support a sportsman like I did Schumacher. He was my childhood hero. What I do today in my life, a lot of its ethos is derived from seeing him. How meticulous and detailed he was. But, in my heart I know Lewis has achieved more and through his sheer willingness to accept more competition will probably and should be regarded as the best ever.

But, during the Schumacher days, he was a villain and his team mate's uselessness was almost used against his brilliance. I saw shades of it when Webber was unable to beat Vettel. But the sheer desperation among some fans to make Bottas look like this amazing driver I have never seen. It is beyond pathetic. A guy walks in and basically owns him and people are just clinging on to Abu Dhabi hoping Bottas puts a Hamilton on him. Newsflash!! He should have been doing that at Sakhir as well and the constant excuses for failure frankly sounds unbelievably desperate.

I think personally, Hamilton deserves his dominant cars. He's just earned it. Perhaps, he even deserves a lapdog. I don't think Russell is beating Hamilton over a year but I think what really *pisses off* most fans is the continuous pretence from Mercedes, Toto and Lewis that Valtteri is a "challenger." It's an absolute joke. I know a lot of fans will be on Hamilton's case if Russell beats Bottas at Abu Dhabi and I'm not going to be one of those but by god I swear some fans really push you to question the last few championships.

Just to put it out there- What is George to do if Red Bull offer him a race seat for 2021? Mercedes have already wasted Wehrlein. I think Ocon had done more than enough to be in a Mercedes already and I think it's just unbelievable that Russell doesn't get in the seat in 2021. Sure, he could be there in 2022, but Mercedes are being extremely arrogant and George extremely juvenile if he thinks that this dominance is forever. It might change.
I don’t think Mercedes waisted Wehrlein and Ocon. They were measured up for a few years and probably came short in development, with their long term planning that there wasn’t room for either of them anyway. Just like RedBull, you don’t struck good at every try. You get them in your program with limited data, then you see if you can develop the talent. If they don’t... it’s exit. Just look at someone like Kvyat. He was hailed as the next big thing in his first year. Development stagnated and he’s got the job more because they don’t have another talent with a SL.

Could it just be, especially when you’ve been following his F2 year, Russell is the next big thing? His opening last weekend was just like Australia 2007. Rookie Hamilton making his pass on the outside in turn one.