Long Lap Penalty in F1

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TalnoRacing
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Long Lap Penalty in F1

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MotoGP successfully (in my opinion) uses a long lap penalty system where riders that exceed track limits, or commit other types of sporting violations, have to take a dedicated longer, slower turn on the track. This increases the lap time for that 1 lap, effectively penalising the rider during the race. World Superbikes will also introduce long lap penalties for 2021 (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/wo ... alty-2021/).

Perhaps this is something that can also work in F1? Instead of applying penalties after the race (which can cause confusion amongst fans, or ruin a driver's chance of celebrating on the podium), a driver will take a longer, slower lap. This penalises them immediately, potentially puts them behind a slower driver (or behind the driver they impeded).

I know that some F1 tracks like Monaco and maybe Canada may not be able to easily accommodate this, but for me it would be a better way of penalising drivers. I would still have drive-through and stop-go penalties for more serious offences.

Greg Locock
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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You could just have a thing like a pit lane with a defined speed limit, which would be fairly easy to incorporate. either way that sounds like a great idea.

graham.reeds
graham.reeds
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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But that would not work for Interlagos '19.

Better would be to rule on the result immediately before the ceremony.

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rscsr
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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TalnoRacing wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:31 am
MotoGP successfully (in my opinion) uses a long lap penalty system where riders that exceed track limits, or commit other types of sporting violations, have to take a dedicated longer, slower turn on the track. This increases the lap time for that 1 lap, effectively penalising the rider during the race. World Superbikes will also introduce long lap penalties for 2021 (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/wo ... alty-2021/).

Perhaps this is something that can also work in F1? Instead of applying penalties after the race (which can cause confusion amongst fans, or ruin a driver's chance of celebrating on the podium), a driver will take a longer, slower lap. This penalises them immediately, potentially puts them behind a slower driver (or behind the driver they impeded).

I know that some F1 tracks like Monaco and maybe Canada may not be able to easily accommodate this, but for me it would be a better way of penalising drivers. I would still have drive-through and stop-go penalties for more serious offences.
It works in MotoGP because the competition is close. Typically the Top15 finishes within 30seconds (Top10 within 20s).
In F1 the Top10 doesn't finish within 90s.
So the cars need a bigger penalty. I think the way NASCAR punishes chicane cutting in Watkins Glen would be feasible. You have to come to a full stop, before you are allowed to go again. I think that would be the way to go.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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I dont think it would stop allthe after race penalties though. The after race penalties happen for 2 reasons.
1, the penalty was given out after that driver did his last pit stop (these ones would be stopped with the long lap)

2. The steward's couldn't decide on the outcome in time to apply a penalty during the race. So this wouldn't change.

As for the track limits bit, F1 just needs to be more strict, I know bikes are easy to see if they leave the track as they have just 2 wheels and you can clearly see both inside and outside edges of those tyres. What F1 should do is fully introduce sensors in the exit apex. If a car crosses it, the stewards get a notification. Hell, you could even have on tv the drivers name lights up red on the leader board each time they go outside the circuit. You could even implement a override system that cancels it if the car is traveling say 10% slower than it has been at that point. If a driver gets a certain amount, give them a certain time penalty or long lap penalty as mentioned above. Just get strict for goodness sake.

if football can use goal line technology to tell if a football goes 1mm over the goal line, they can do the same for a car and a race track. May only need applying on a few corners per track so its not a huge job.
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Big Tea
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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The three strikes option we have now is fine, as long as it is implemented.
There is a warning, then another warning, then telling the driver there is a warning, then a threat of sanction, then a serious warning etc.
If they knew that after the third 'offense' it would be a second per time for the next 3 offenses then a 5 sec pitstop they would keep the 'spares' for when they slip up not count em as gimme's
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Stu
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:55 pm
I dont think it would stop allthe after race penalties though. The after race penalties happen for 2 reasons.
1, the penalty was given out after that driver did his last pit stop (these ones would be stopped with the long lap)

2. The steward's couldn't decide on the outcome in time to apply a penalty during the race. So this wouldn't change.

As for the track limits bit, F1 just needs to be more strict, I know bikes are easy to see if they leave the track as they have just 2 wheels and you can clearly see both inside and outside edges of those tyres. What F1 should do is fully introduce sensors in the exit apex. If a car crosses it, the stewards get a notification. Hell, you could even have on tv the drivers name lights up red on the leader board each time they go outside the circuit. You could even implement a override system that cancels it if the car is traveling say 10% slower than it has been at that point. If a driver gets a certain amount, give them a certain time penalty or long lap penalty as mentioned above. Just get strict for goodness sake.

if football can use goal line technology to tell if a football goes 1mm over the goal line, they can do the same for a car and a race track. May only need applying on a few corners per track so its not a huge job.
The cars already have a sensor on them to detect jump starts, the tracks already have embedded loops every 10 metres or so for timing and speed purposes, why not add to that with a track edge loop (both sides of the track) to use as a track limit detection?
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NathanOlder
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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Stu wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:17 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:55 pm
I dont think it would stop allthe after race penalties though. The after race penalties happen for 2 reasons.
1, the penalty was given out after that driver did his last pit stop (these ones would be stopped with the long lap)

2. The steward's couldn't decide on the outcome in time to apply a penalty during the race. So this wouldn't change.

As for the track limits bit, F1 just needs to be more strict, I know bikes are easy to see if they leave the track as they have just 2 wheels and you can clearly see both inside and outside edges of those tyres. What F1 should do is fully introduce sensors in the exit apex. If a car crosses it, the stewards get a notification. Hell, you could even have on tv the drivers name lights up red on the leader board each time they go outside the circuit. You could even implement a override system that cancels it if the car is traveling say 10% slower than it has been at that point. If a driver gets a certain amount, give them a certain time penalty or long lap penalty as mentioned above. Just get strict for goodness sake.

if football can use goal line technology to tell if a football goes 1mm over the goal line, they can do the same for a car and a race track. May only need applying on a few corners per track so its not a huge job.
The cars already have a sensor on them to detect jump starts, the tracks already have embedded loops every 10 metres or so for timing and speed purposes, why not add to that with a track edge loop (both sides of the track) to use as a track limit detection?
Yeah, I'm sure they could do soething pretty easy. Just for 50m stretches on the corners where they need to be implemented. Basically a sensor in the ground that picks up when the center of the car crosses it. As an example just in the ground at Turn 19 in COTA

If you cross this red line with the center of your car, you get done for it.

Image

Image

Then the stewards can cancel it if you were in a spin, forced off, or maybe even the driver slows down on the exit to show he has'nt kept his foot flat.
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Big Tea
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Stu wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:17 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:55 pm
I dont think it would stop allthe after race penalties though. The after race penalties happen for 2 reasons.
1, the penalty was given out after that driver did his last pit stop (these ones would be stopped with the long lap)

2. The steward's couldn't decide on the outcome in time to apply a penalty during the race. So this wouldn't change.

As for the track limits bit, F1 just needs to be more strict, I know bikes are easy to see if they leave the track as they have just 2 wheels and you can clearly see both inside and outside edges of those tyres. What F1 should do is fully introduce sensors in the exit apex. If a car crosses it, the stewards get a notification. Hell, you could even have on tv the drivers name lights up red on the leader board each time they go outside the circuit. You could even implement a override system that cancels it if the car is traveling say 10% slower than it has been at that point. If a driver gets a certain amount, give them a certain time penalty or long lap penalty as mentioned above. Just get strict for goodness sake.

if football can use goal line technology to tell if a football goes 1mm over the goal line, they can do the same for a car and a race track. May only need applying on a few corners per track so its not a huge job.
The cars already have a sensor on them to detect jump starts, the tracks already have embedded loops every 10 metres or so for timing and speed purposes, why not add to that with a track edge loop (both sides of the track) to use as a track limit detection?
Yeah, I'm sure they could do soething pretty easy. Just for 50m stretches on the corners where they need to be implemented. Basically a sensor in the ground that picks up when the center of the car crosses it. As an example just in the ground at Turn 19 in COTA

If you cross this red line with the center of your car, you get done for it.

https://i.imgur.com/0B3hHX6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CV7gWEP.jpg

Then the stewards can cancel it if you were in a spin, forced off, or maybe even the driver slows down on the exit to show he has'nt kept his foot flat.
Easy, paint the line with reflective or dielectric paint and fit sensors to the brake plates.
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Pat Pending
Pat Pending
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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The previous pit lane drive through penalties would have this effect. Can't remember off the top of my head why they were got rid of.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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Pat Pending wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:53 pm
The previous pit lane drive through penalties would have this effect. Can't remember off the top of my head why they were got rid of.
No the pit lane drive through cost too much time, 15 seconds at least. A long lap penalty is something like 3 seconds. So can be used for small punishment
.
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NL_Fer
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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Won’t they catch dust on the tyres?

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Big Tea
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm
Won’t they catch dust on the tyres?
Nah, it'll be well used :mrgreen:
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm
Won’t they catch dust on the tyres?
Isn't that part of the punishment? Don't want dusty tyres? Don't take the p1ss.
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strad
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Re: Long Lap Penalty in F1

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Just get strict for goodness sake.
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