Ham to Nascar.
Rus in at Merc.
Bot...nobody cares.
No, Hamilton’s hand is weaker now than during his last contract extension in 2018 because;PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pmNow Hamilton has 7 XWDC they MUST pay him more because of that fact. And Hamilton needs his 8th. He drives they provide the car. They must pay him more and he must drive better and promote the brand better. No free meals for either if them.
I agree. “Morally” — you might think hiring Lewis now has more value given he has more titles and wins than his last contract extension. But Mercedes (the car company) imo has in the past been very strict business numbers oriented — very stereotypically German, in a sense — and they will see that because their car is so dominant then it doesn’t “require” a Lewis. A B or B+ driver would be “enough”Kingshark wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:07 amNo, Hamilton’s hand is weaker now than during his last contract extension in 2018 because;PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pmNow Hamilton has 7 XWDC they MUST pay him more because of that fact. And Hamilton needs his 8th. He drives they provide the car. They must pay him more and he must drive better and promote the brand better. No free meals for either if them.
1. Mercedes is more dominant now than they were in 2018, so they need him less
2. Hamilton is three years older now than he was then
3. Mercedes have a cheap young driver who has already shown what he can do in a Mercedes
4. COVID
I would be amazed if Daimler increase his salary. Let’s wait and see.
I suspect Phillip Morris international. Can you really imagine Hamilton working for a tobacco company with a legacy in the slave trade?
Philip Morris International. They run the marketing, sponsors, drivers etc for Ferrari (and in the past McLaren). They also used to run a pretty successful young driver program before Mercedes and Redbull.
Just had a quick look, and I make it Max gains 46pts and Bottas gains 47pts. So no change in results, you are correct. But considering Max had 5 retirements and Bottas had 1, It could and maybe should have been Max in 2nd place. A 10pt gap isn't big enough with 4 (3 if you add Silverstones non score for Bottas) extra non finishes for Max considering nearly every time he finshed, it was on the podium, so 10pts Bottas had were uselsess.raymondu999 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:22 amI agree. “Morally” — you might think hiring Lewis now has more value given he has more titles and wins than his last contract extension. But Mercedes (the car company) imo has in the past been very strict business numbers oriented — very stereotypically German, in a sense — and they will see that because their car is so dominant then it doesn’t “require” a Lewis. A B or B+ driver would be “enough”Kingshark wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:07 amNo, Hamilton’s hand is weaker now than during his last contract extension in 2018 because;PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pmNow Hamilton has 7 XWDC they MUST pay him more because of that fact. And Hamilton needs his 8th. He drives they provide the car. They must pay him more and he must drive better and promote the brand better. No free meals for either if them.
1. Mercedes is more dominant now than they were in 2018, so they need him less
2. Hamilton is three years older now than he was then
3. Mercedes have a cheap young driver who has already shown what he can do in a Mercedes
4. COVID
I would be amazed if Daimler increase his salary. Let’s wait and see.
For example, if we eliminate Lewis out of this year’s results, and elevate every one 1 spot behind him in races by a spot, Bottas would have been “enough” to be champion. In fact the points gap between Verstappen and Bottas would increase (I did the sums in a spreadsheet some time back but I forgot where. Could be interesting to post as a thread some time if i can find it).
Hence — they don’t “need” a Lewis — they only need someone to be “just” as good as Bottas — whatever level he may be — to secure a title double.
May sound cruel to not offer a 7wdc more pay than you offer a 6(or less)wdc — but that is the harsh truth of business
One can already wonder with 'traditional jobs' if the compensation system (more experience means more money) is fair. More experience does not always mean more competence. Hell, quite likely, people deliver their best work in their 30s-40s, when they have reasonable experience and energy, and likely have the most use for the money at that age too. But I digress..raymondu999 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:22 amI agree. “Morally” — you might think hiring Lewis now has more value given he has more titles and wins than his last contract extension. But Mercedes (the car company) imo has in the past been very strict business numbers oriented — very stereotypically German, in a sense — and they will see that because their car is so dominant then it doesn’t “require” a Lewis. A B or B+ driver would be “enough”Kingshark wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:07 amNo, Hamilton’s hand is weaker now than during his last contract extension in 2018 because;PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pmNow Hamilton has 7 XWDC they MUST pay him more because of that fact. And Hamilton needs his 8th. He drives they provide the car. They must pay him more and he must drive better and promote the brand better. No free meals for either if them.
1. Mercedes is more dominant now than they were in 2018, so they need him less
2. Hamilton is three years older now than he was then
3. Mercedes have a cheap young driver who has already shown what he can do in a Mercedes
4. COVID
I would be amazed if Daimler increase his salary. Let’s wait and see.
For example, if we eliminate Lewis out of this year’s results, and elevate every one 1 spot behind him in races by a spot, Bottas would have been “enough” to be champion. In fact the points gap between Verstappen and Bottas would increase (I did the sums in a spreadsheet some time back but I forgot where. Could be interesting to post as a thread some time if i can find it).
Hence — they don’t “need” a Lewis — they only need someone to be “just” as good as Bottas — whatever level he may be — to secure a title double.
May sound cruel to not offer a 7wdc more pay than you offer a 6(or less)wdc — but that is the harsh truth of business
It's not the salary that's the issue. It's the non-racing stuff. He wants to have more control of his image rights, for example, as he mentioned in an interview last season. As an example, in the UK there is an advert for a sanitiser made by INEOS. It starts by saying something like "Whether you live to race or race to save lives" and shows Hamilton / F1 car before switching to a nurse. I bet he wants more say in such things and that's where the hold up is. I would bet on INEOS wanting to use him / his image a lot for marketing of their stuff and I would bet on him pushing back against that. INEOS have spent a lot of money buying in to the successful F1 brand and that includes Hamilton. They'll want their pound of flesh back. And, as good as Russell is in a racing car, he isn't marketing gold like Hamilton currently is.Kingshark wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:07 amNo, Hamilton’s hand is weaker now than during his last contract extension in 2018 because;PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pmNow Hamilton has 7 XWDC they MUST pay him more because of that fact. And Hamilton needs his 8th. He drives they provide the car. They must pay him more and he must drive better and promote the brand better. No free meals for either if them.
1. Mercedes is more dominant now than they were in 2018, so they need him less
2. Hamilton is three years older now than he was then
3. Mercedes have a cheap young driver who has already shown what he can do in a Mercedes
4. COVID
I would be amazed if Daimler increase his salary. Let’s wait and see.
My point was mainly that the premium on sports merchandise is absurd. That's in part on the crowd being willing to pay it, and in part on the companies exploiting this willingness, but the premiums could be reduced with no impact other than the wages of a few people (athletes and brand managers) being reduced to a more humane level... I also don't per se agree that MJ was underpaid also. Compare it to, say, an engineer or product developer having some breakthrough that delivers the company X million in sales/profit/savings. They'll get a bonus or promotion probably, but in no way is the remuneration proportional to the impact of their contribution. Anyway, this is a bit of a tangent to the whole topicJolle wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:25 amThe main goal of the Mercedes F1 team is not to win races and championships but to sell more cars.
Yes there is a moral question if a sport star should earn so much but on the other hand there is a moral question that if a stars connection is worth an x amount of extra sales value, isn’t underpaying him more wrong?
As an example. Michael Jordan’s connection with Nike not only gave them a whole new market, but also billions in sales and profit (even after his retirement). During his Bull’s years, he got around 100m a year, a ludicrous amount but for what Nike made because of him, you could also say he was underpaid.
Daimler and they marketing strategies know what they have and certainly have the numbers. Over the past two contracts they already decided that Hamilton is worth it (and this got less to do with his driving, more with the image). Looking at their other celebrity deals, his activism is something they embrace, Tilda Swindon for instance, a leading activist for LGBTQ rights (and as shown with other brands, embracing activists for equality shares a positive image and boosts sales and image). So.... why would Daimler pay less? Or is it that some people here just don’t like him?
We both know that the additional profit of Nike because of Jordan didn’t went to the kids who made the shoes but to Phill Knight and the shareholders (nice name for a punk band now I think of it) at least with additional sales of Mercedes cars, more people will be employed and if in Germany, with good wages and social security.DChemTech wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:47 amMy point was mainly that the premium on sports merchandise is absurd. That's in part on the crowd being willing to pay it, and in part on the companies exploiting this willingness, but the premiums could be reduced with no impact other than the wages of a few people (athletes and brand managers) being reduced to a more humane level... I also don't per se agree that MJ was underpaid also. Compare it to, say, an engineer or product developer having some breakthrough that delivers the company X million in sales/profit/savings. They'll get a bonus or promotion probably, but in no way is the remuneration proportional to the impact of their contribution. Anyway, this is a bit of a tangent to the whole topicJolle wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:25 amThe main goal of the Mercedes F1 team is not to win races and championships but to sell more cars.
Yes there is a moral question if a sport star should earn so much but on the other hand there is a moral question that if a stars connection is worth an x amount of extra sales value, isn’t underpaying him more wrong?
As an example. Michael Jordan’s connection with Nike not only gave them a whole new market, but also billions in sales and profit (even after his retirement). During his Bull’s years, he got around 100m a year, a ludicrous amount but for what Nike made because of him, you could also say he was underpaid.
Daimler and they marketing strategies know what they have and certainly have the numbers. Over the past two contracts they already decided that Hamilton is worth it (and this got less to do with his driving, more with the image). Looking at their other celebrity deals, his activism is something they embrace, Tilda Swindon for instance, a leading activist for LGBTQ rights (and as shown with other brands, embracing activists for equality shares a positive image and boosts sales and image). So.... why would Daimler pay less? Or is it that some people here just don’t like him?