Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
zokipirlo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I think you all are missing one more important thing when calculating HP. In the middle of this season party mode was gone, so peak HP dropped for all. Ferrari lost it already over winter, other teams lost it in Monza. You can see on Q3 in SPA and Monza how time improvements dropped for teams in Monza. I can't wait to see on next year SPA how fast can Mercedes and RB go or to say differently, how much time they will lost compare to this year... if party mode made any difference of course.
Ferrari need to made improvement in sustained power, I think they were losing a lot more (calculated in HP) on race trim. Even with peak (and hopefully sustained) 30 HP gain would make big improvements.

Schippke
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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zokipirlo wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:24 pm
I think you all are missing one more important thing when calculating HP. In the middle of this season party mode was gone, so peak HP dropped for all. Ferrari lost it already over winter, other teams lost it in Monza. You can see on Q3 in SPA and Monza how time improvements dropped for teams in Monza. I can't wait to see on next year SPA how fast can Mercedes and RB go or to say differently, how much time they will lost compare to this year... if party mode made any difference of course.
Ferrari need to made improvement in sustained power, I think they were losing a lot more (calculated in HP) on race trim. Even with peak (and hopefully sustained) 30 HP gain would make big improvements.
You bring up a valid point with regards to the banning of qualifying modes, however I think a lot of that would've been settled a race or so after the mandate came into force, so I don't think it changes much. What it does mean is that all the engine manufactures can engineer, setup and enhance their ICE more so for the race, compared to last year where they originally designed them to handle the qualifying modes as well as race modes; They can effectively focus on one full mode for the race to extract what they can efficiently and reliably.

I personally hate the ruling; Seeing everything cranked-up for an all out lap in qualifying mode was always exciting... even if it did mean Mercedes would embarrass the rest of the field most of the time. And it is still part of the engineering challenge, how much one wishes to risk outright power for a couple of laps vs. reliability. But oh well... wrong thread to vent my frustration about it.

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904
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Could anyone please explain the pros and cons of a single vs dual exhaust wastegate?
Also, why do Mercedes and Redbull prefer dual wastegates while Ferrari prefers a single one?

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Bandit1216
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:55 am
Could anyone please explain the pros and cons of a single vs dual exhaust wastegate?
Also, why do Mercedes and Redbull prefer dual wastegates while Ferrari prefers a single one?
I think it could be a result of another preference as well. I see Ferrari has the waste gate on the turbine housing, and others have 2 waste gates on the exhausts before the turbine housing. This could well be because the compressor housing is split with Honda and Merc, but together, more conventional with Renault and Ferrari.

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Mudflap
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Each cylinder bank acts as an even firing 3 cylinder engine which means that the exhaust manifold pulses are evenly spaced 240 degrees apart and offset 90 degrees with respect to the other bank. With a single wastegate setup the two exhaust manifolds cross-talk through the single wastegate manifold which means "rogue" pulses from one bank will disrupt the tuning of the other bank exhaust pulses.

With twin independent wastegates the only cross talk is through the exhaust turbine scroll.

I am sure there must be some aero tricks involved too.
nah pop no style

tangodjango
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https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... n=widget-1

'Ferrari engine for 2021 not revolutionary, possible changes in 2022'

Franco Nugnes whose word regarding 50 hp gains were treated as gospel here, backtracks majorly in this latest article.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm
Each cylinder bank acts as an even firing 3 cylinder engine which means that the exhaust manifold pulses are evenly spaced 240 degrees apart and offset 90 degrees with respect to the other bank. With a single wastegate setup the two exhaust manifolds cross-talk through the single wastegate manifold which means "rogue" pulses from one bank will disrupt the tuning of the other bank exhaust pulses.

With twin independent wastegates the only cross talk is through the exhaust turbine scroll.
It can be done with a single wastegate but requires plumbing with a divider right up to the moving element in the WG valve.

I wonder if dual wastegate setups have been operated with staggered opening? Operating half the engine with low back pressure might be advantageous - half-way to electric supercharger mode. There would be some leakage across the turbine housing towards the open WG though.
je suis charlie

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Mudflap
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Ferrari used this single buttefly setup with dividers but that won't be very effective at sealing between banks as the divider can't be too close to the plate in order to allow it to rotate . A single actuator with 2 poppet valves or a single barrel valve would probably be better.

nah pop no style

gruntguru
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Single poppet valve with divider right up to the face. Only works with boost on the non-stem side of the valve but that is the usual layout.
je suis charlie

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm
Each cylinder bank acts as an even firing 3 cylinder engine which means that the exhaust manifold pulses are evenly spaced 240 degrees apart and offset 90 degrees with respect to the other bank.....
afaik that will apply if both bank's exhaust runners are equal in length
if they are (suitably) unequal lengths ......the pulses will (at/around one chosen rpm) have no offset
(though any pulse then reflected from an 'end' will in principle be unsuited to one bank)

whenever I looked at 2014-etc F1 lengths they seemed to be unequal
the only F1 single turbo V6 (Renault) had unequal lengths

subfire91
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Ferrari was down to Mercedes approx. 60HP this year according to rumors. If the rumors on Mercedes gaining another 20HP for 2021, Ferrari needs a 70HP jump in order to be competitive.
30HP gains will just not do the job.

ryaan2904
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subfire91 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:50 pm
Ferrari was down to Mercedes approx. 60HP this year according to rumors. If the rumors on Mercedes gaining another 20HP for 2021, Ferrari needs a 70HP jump in order to be competitive.
30HP gains will just not do the job.
It wasn't 60, it was 40.

FDD
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:18 am
subfire91 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:50 pm
Ferrari was down to Mercedes approx. 60HP this year according to rumors. If the rumors on Mercedes gaining another 20HP for 2021, Ferrari needs a 70HP jump in order to be competitive.
30HP gains will just not do the job.
It wasn't 60, it was 40.
I think you are right, the last info that I read according to GPS measurements Ferrari was 45 HP down on MERC.

Carl Mccoy
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This is all speculation. Being the third in the field is all Ferrari can do next year. They will reduce the distance but it will still be the weakest PU in the grid.