Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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LM10
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Eddie Jordan expressing his opinion in a shockingly straightforward way.

Speaking in an interview with F1 Insider, Jordan said: “Apparently the parties disagree on the terms. I just heard that Lewis wants more than Mercedes are willing to pay.

“It’s also about sharing the team’s income and having an influential role in the Mercedes group. If I were the boss of Daimler, I would show him the door – either you drive on our terms or you go.”

Jordan added: “I would also tell him what Bernie Ecclestone said after Ayrton Senna’s death. Even though Bernie was shocked and sad like everyone else, he was the first to regain his composure and said to us ‘now stop whining – everyone is replaceable’. Lewis should know that by now.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/eddie-jor ... -contract/

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Schippke
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ESPImperium wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:04 pm
Russell is being used as a bargaining chip, He will be in the Mercedes in 2022 alongside someone other than Bottas id recon, probably Ocon to be honest with Ocon being replaced with Gasly at Alpine. Ill take a early shout, Albon to replace Gasly as Red Bull will stay with Perez and Verstappen.

The fireworks will be at Haas, it will be a probable CatHAAStrophie.

Back to Mercedes, I can see Russell in there next year, as if Hamilton doesn't get that deal, a sabbatical and a year out may happen, with Williams having to scramble for a diver. There will be one or two interested in that last minute seat.
Gasly to Alpine would make so much sense it pains me! If we continue seeing the kind of performances he was demonstrating last season, him moving there alongside Alonso would be a very powerful pairing (pending Alonso this year, though I'm confident he is going to be bloody relentless as always). Some potential fireworks there too!

As for Haas... I hope I'm wrong, but I think they'll be very much forgotten about next year, aside from Schumacher in the seat. Maybe with the new Ferrari Power Unit they'll get some ground, but 2 new drivers in the least experienced team who seemingly have car issues year in/out... seems like they'll be duking it out with Williams... or taking their place this year.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Behind Ayrton , my 2 favourites of all time. :P
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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:50 am
Eddie Jordan expressing his opinion in a shockingly straightforward way.

Speaking in an interview with F1 Insider, Jordan said: “Apparently the parties disagree on the terms. I just heard that Lewis wants more than Mercedes are willing to pay.

“It’s also about sharing the team’s income and having an influential role in the Mercedes group. If I were the boss of Daimler, I would show him the door – either you drive on our terms or you go.”

Jordan added: “I would also tell him what Bernie Ecclestone said after Ayrton Senna’s death. Even though Bernie was shocked and sad like everyone else, he was the first to regain his composure and said to us ‘now stop whining – everyone is replaceable’. Lewis should know that by now.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/eddie-jor ... -contract/
I have to admit, I agree with him, if it is as he says. No one is bigger than the team (excerpt the owner :mrgreen: ) even the top driver is an employee and depends on all the other employees and could not do their job without them
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:05 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:50 am
Eddie Jordan expressing his opinion in a shockingly straightforward way.

Speaking in an interview with F1 Insider, Jordan said: “Apparently the parties disagree on the terms. I just heard that Lewis wants more than Mercedes are willing to pay.

“It’s also about sharing the team’s income and having an influential role in the Mercedes group. If I were the boss of Daimler, I would show him the door – either you drive on our terms or you go.”

Jordan added: “I would also tell him what Bernie Ecclestone said after Ayrton Senna’s death. Even though Bernie was shocked and sad like everyone else, he was the first to regain his composure and said to us ‘now stop whining – everyone is replaceable’. Lewis should know that by now.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/eddie-jor ... -contract/
I have to admit, I agree with him, if it is as he says. No one is bigger than the team (excerpt the owner :mrgreen: ) even the top driver is an employee and depends on all the other employees and could not do their job without them
Yeah very true, but where has Lewis ever said he's bigger than the team ?
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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:11 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:05 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:50 am
Eddie Jordan expressing his opinion in a shockingly straightforward way.




https://www.planetf1.com/news/eddie-jor ... -contract/
I have to admit, I agree with him, if it is as he says. No one is bigger than the team (excerpt the owner :mrgreen: ) even the top driver is an employee and depends on all the other employees and could not do their job without them
Yeah very true, but where has Lewis ever said he's bigger than the team ?
You are right, we only know what we are fed
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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Phil
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:05 pm
I have to admit, I agree with him, if it is as he says. No one is bigger than the team (excerpt the owner :mrgreen: ) even the top driver is an employee and depends on all the other employees and could not do their job without them
Lewis not signing yet is obviously a big deal - and something most would regard as a no-brainer. At the end of it, it's a business relationship where two parties are involved. Having that said, no one is bigger than the other - both have to feel comfortable with what they are signing and you can't blame them for trying to get the best deal.

As long as both are aware of the consequences, that being that Lewis might find himself without a drive and Mercedes without their 7 times WDC, all is good.

Obviously, I hope they can find an arrangement that works. As a Lewis supporter, I'd hope to see a multiple year contract on offer as that would mean retaining Lewis in F1 for the foreseeable future.

Remarks such as Eddie makes me think some think that Lewis should take anything he is being offered, but only Lewis knows how much his time and energy is worth. And while we assume it's about money, it could very well be about other factors such as image rights and duration etc.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Phil wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:34 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:05 pm
I have to admit, I agree with him, if it is as he says. No one is bigger than the team (excerpt the owner :mrgreen: ) even the top driver is an employee and depends on all the other employees and could not do their job without them
Lewis not signing yet is obviously a big deal - and something most would regard as a no-brainer. At the end of it, it's a business relationship where two parties are involved. Having that said, no one is bigger than the other - both have to feel comfortable with what they are signing and you can't blame them for trying to get the best deal.

As long as both are aware of the consequences, that being that Lewis might find himself without a drive and Mercedes without their 7 times WDC, all is good.

Obviously, I hope they can find an arrangement that works. As a Lewis supporter, I'd hope to see a multiple year contract on offer as that would mean retaining Lewis in F1 for the foreseeable future.

Remarks such as Eddie makes me think some think that Lewis should take anything he is being offered, but only Lewis knows how much his time and energy is worth. And while we assume it's about money, it could very well be about other factors such as image rights and duration etc.
I believe they will sort it out amicably in the end, but once company politics get headway, it can become impossible for the people concerned to continue as there is an edict 'from on high' which has no flexibility and no humanity.
Once these are delivered, what was once an amicable chat becomes an ultimatum and the other side adopts the same stance, and its war. Sign or walk can easily become 'F' you, I have been thrown out of better places than this, I'm off.
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Look how much people are talking about this, all the tabloids in the world included.
They're milking the cow to the last drop.
It's all done and dusted, they're just waiting for the right moment to physically sign the deal and then announce it.

that includes the perfect moment to suddenly release a huge amount of merchandice with SIR Lewis Hamilton.
With the current Covid wave fully under away, and a brand new British and SA one, this is simply not the right moment.
I'd give it about 2,5 to 3 weeks, announcing exciting things coming up from this new deal,
and then in about 4-5 weeks tops a huge amount of new merch gets released, just before the car will be officially revealed,
mere weeks before testing.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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The thing is with Mercedes is they have to give Hamilton more money than he was getting in the previous contract.
Good performance must be rewarded. F1 is a business and it makes no sense that he wins a champion and breaks records and gets less money. If he even gets 1 million more and some other perks the team is obligated to give an increase. That's how capitalism works. His value has increased because of his success and hardwork. Him taking less is irrational.
I only hope he isnt asking for ridiculous things.
For Sure!!

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raymondu999
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:51 am
Good performance must be rewarded.
Purely from a business context -- high level business is often a lot more ruthless than that, sadly.
F1 is a business and it makes no sense that he wins a champion and breaks records and gets less money.
From the company point of view, it's a simple case of economics. Price vs utility.
That's how capitalism works.
I don't agree.
His value has increased because of his success and hardwork.
In every day logic, yes. In business logic, I doubt it.
Him taking less is irrational.
In every day logic -- yes, it is. And he probably "deserves" more given that now his CV is a 7WDC CV.
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Fulcrum
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:51 am
The thing is with Mercedes is they have to give Hamilton more money than he was getting in the previous contract.
Good performance must be rewarded. F1 is a business and it makes no sense that he wins a champion and breaks records and gets less money. If he even gets 1 million more and some other perks the team is obligated to give an increase. That's how capitalism works. His value has increased because of his success and hardwork. Him taking less is irrational.
I only hope he isnt asking for ridiculous things.
Hamilton may very well have justified an increase in pay, unfortunately the circumstances have not been static. The pandemic has had a real effect on company bottom lines, Mercedes included.

If Hamilton gets $50M(+), he will be earning as much as half the workforce of the Mercedes F1 team combined, at a time when Daimler has already indicated it will cut 10,000 to 20,000 employees worldwide over the next couple of years.

There is an argument to be made that Hamilton is a more visible representation of the Mercedes brand, but I highly doubt he has greater influence on the global functioning of Daimler, certainly not as large as is implied by the discrepancy in pay between Hamilton and the Daimler CEO. Daimler executives have also taken a 20% paycut during the pandemic.

The optics of giving Hamilton a pay increase, while the overall business health has plummeted and people are being retrenched, do not work in Hamilton's favour. It's just bad timing.

As was mentioned in another post, things are amicable until they become acrimonious. If either Mercedes or Hamilton begin to draw lines in the sand, the goodwill between both parties will vaporize.

Hamilton accepting less would actually be pragmatic in the long run, especially if he wants to maintain a working business relationship with Mercedes beyond his racing career.

aMessageToCharlie
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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100% agree with Fulcrum.

Mercedes doesnt "have to" do anything.

What's irrational is arguing that in a time where people are being forced to work short-time and are getting laid off from their job, the company should add even more millions to the highest paid F1 driver's salery.

No one is bigger than the team.

Meanwhile Audi and BMW and pulling the plugs from their FE programs for COVID related economic reasons.

Also from a negotiation perspective:
- Hamilton still gets paid millions
- he gets an almost guaranteed record breaking 8th championship and records for most wins and poles
- secures his place in the best seat in F1
- he has nowhere else to go

So from my pov it should be a no brainer. Take the deal you can get and appreciate what you have. Demanding a higher salery at the risk of getting dropped from the team would be madness. I still don’t think that it will come to this, but it's really strange that it takes that long to agree on terms.

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SiLo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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What's the cost to Mercedes if they lose the Championship because they don't re-sign Hamilton? And Russell is good not not as good? What is the marketing value in having the first driver to win 8 titles with your team and break 100 poles and 100 wins?

I bet they would make back his salary in that marketing alone in a season. Still amazed there isn't a one-off Hamilton version of a Merc performance car.
Felipe Baby!

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Fulcrum wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:38 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:51 am
The thing is with Mercedes is they have to give Hamilton more money than he was getting in the previous contract.
Good performance must be rewarded. F1 is a business and it makes no sense that he wins a champion and breaks records and gets less money. If he even gets 1 million more and some other perks the team is obligated to give an increase. That's how capitalism works. His value has increased because of his success and hardwork. Him taking less is irrational.
I only hope he isnt asking for ridiculous things.
Hamilton may very well have justified an increase in pay, unfortunately the circumstances have not been static. The pandemic has had a real effect on company bottom lines, Mercedes included.

If Hamilton gets $50M(+), he will be earning as much as half the workforce of the Mercedes F1 team combined, at a time when Daimler has already indicated it will cut 10,000 to 20,000 employees worldwide over the next couple of years.

There is an argument to be made that Hamilton is a more visible representation of the Mercedes brand, but I highly doubt he has greater influence on the global functioning of Daimler, certainly not as large as is implied by the discrepancy in pay between Hamilton and the Daimler CEO. Daimler executives have also taken a 20% paycut during the pandemic.

The optics of giving Hamilton a pay increase, while the overall business health has plummeted and people are being retrenched, do not work in Hamilton's favour. It's just bad timing.

As was mentioned in another post, things are amicable until they become acrimonious. If either Mercedes or Hamilton begin to draw lines in the sand, the goodwill between both parties will vaporize.

Hamilton accepting less would actually be pragmatic in the long run, especially if he wants to maintain a working business relationship with Mercedes beyond his racing career.
They're all in this business to make money. Hamilton is not a CEO so he doesnt need a pay cut. Those ceos may have reduced salary but they have some stake in the company and i beleive mercedes was one of the few car makers that did well in 2020 or didnt do bad at all. They're all going home with more cash.
If hamilton takes less money now it sets a precedent for him. Success = less money.
In athletics if you break a record the Altheltics body is obligated to pay you your million dollars or whatever the prize is.
Anyhow we must separate the car industry from Formula1 team. The team came 1rst and won prize money.. Hamilton broke records and got knighted. People in the UK watched F1 because of Hamilton, hate him or love him. He is value added for mercedes sales in the uk and around the world.
I don't think he should backdown from his monetary demands. Maybe on some of the sillier stuff.

Also folks... what Merc doesnt want.. is Hamilton taking those 7wdc to another team and getting the 8 in ferrari or redbull..Remember that is also to be considered. He may as well go to Aston Martin, or the other 2 and become 8xwdc and merc are stuck with some hopefules but no great drivers.
They may even get desperate and pluck Alonso. lol
For Sure!!