Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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prince
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:23 pm
Also folks... what Merc doesnt want.. is Hamilton taking those 7wdc to another team and getting the 8 in ferrari or redbull..Remember that is also to be considered. He may as well go to Aston Martin, or the other 2 and become 8xwdc and merc are stuck with some hopefules but no great drivers.
They may even get desperate and pluck Alonso. lol
What exactly is Mercedes going to lose if he takes his 7 WDC elsewhere? Mercedes themselves are 7 times WCC and the whole world knows Mercedes produced those winning cars that Lewis drove. Michael Schumacher left Ferrari with 7 titles to Mercedes. Did that in anyway affect Ferrari's brand? An individual's commercial significance is overstated. What happens if George jumps into Mercedes and wins the WDC while Lewis is driving non winners in another team, which is more than likely given the cars Mercedes is producing? Where does that leave Lewis? It's a catastrophe.

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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prince wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:25 pm
ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:23 pm
Also folks... what Merc doesnt want.. is Hamilton taking those 7wdc to another team and getting the 8 in ferrari or redbull..Remember that is also to be considered. He may as well go to Aston Martin, or the other 2 and become 8xwdc and merc are stuck with some hopefules but no great drivers.
They may even get desperate and pluck Alonso. lol
What exactly is Mercedes going to lose if he takes his 7 WDC elsewhere? Mercedes themselves are 7 times WCC and the whole world knows Mercedes produced those winning cars that Lewis drove. Michael Schumacher left Ferrari with 7 titles to Mercedes. Did that in anyway affect Ferrari's brand? An individual's commercial significance is overstated. What happens if George jumps into Mercedes and wins the WDC while Lewis is driving non winners in another team, which is more than likely given the cars Mercedes is producing? Where does that leave Lewis? It's a catastrophe.
Ferrari lost the possibility of using Schumacher after his switch to Mercedes for anything. Of course, after his accident it’s all hypocritical anyway. Else we’ve could have had the Ferrari Schumacher edition or several rayban and Shell adds with the former weldmeistro

ScottB
ScottB
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Lewis just isn't winning a title anywhere else, not happening. No other team is showing itself on the verge of mounting an actual challenge this year, and assuming the new rules kick in for '22, again, there's no guarantees. He's likely too old to head off somewhere to embark on a multi year 'project' to try and win an 8th, and in the meantime, his replacement could end up becoming a double, even triple champ.

Lewis doesn't have all that much leverage, does he want to stay in F1 / win titles, then sign his new deal. If he doesn't, the new Williams owners seem pretty amenable to selling George back to Merc.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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prince wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:25 pm
What happens if George jumps into Mercedes and wins the WDC while Lewis is driving non winners in another team, which is more than likely given the cars Mercedes is producing? Where does that leave Lewis? It's a catastrophe.
Or George jumps in, Bottas fights him, they trip over each other and Max wins the title in a repeat of 2007. Just as possible. There are no certainties in F1.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

jz11
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Hamiltons activities during the last year make me think that money is not at all the biggest issue in those contract talks, I don't know any specifics, but I highly doubt money is the deal-breaker

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RedNEO
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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jz11 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:21 pm
Hamiltons activities during the last year make me think that money is not at all the biggest issue in those contract talks, I don't know any specifics, but I highly doubt money is the deal-breaker
Spoiler -> it’s money. He’s now a 7 times champion and he wants to squeeze a big final contract but Mercedes are thinking about there wallet and also the long term. A number of drivers will be available including Russell and Max with his clauses. They can put George in the car at any time if they want to save some money and likely still win the championship.

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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If Hamilton doesn’t sign up then wouldn’t that make 2021 be the first time Merc runs a season without a champ in one of the cars? Ever?
Last edited by KeiKo403 on Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fulcrum
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:23 pm
Fulcrum wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:38 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:51 am
The thing is with Mercedes is they have to give Hamilton more money than he was getting in the previous contract.
Good performance must be rewarded. F1 is a business and it makes no sense that he wins a champion and breaks records and gets less money. If he even gets 1 million more and some other perks the team is obligated to give an increase. That's how capitalism works. His value has increased because of his success and hardwork. Him taking less is irrational.
I only hope he isnt asking for ridiculous things.
Hamilton may very well have justified an increase in pay, unfortunately the circumstances have not been static. The pandemic has had a real effect on company bottom lines, Mercedes included.

If Hamilton gets $50M(+), he will be earning as much as half the workforce of the Mercedes F1 team combined, at a time when Daimler has already indicated it will cut 10,000 to 20,000 employees worldwide over the next couple of years.

There is an argument to be made that Hamilton is a more visible representation of the Mercedes brand, but I highly doubt he has greater influence on the global functioning of Daimler, certainly not as large as is implied by the discrepancy in pay between Hamilton and the Daimler CEO. Daimler executives have also taken a 20% paycut during the pandemic.

The optics of giving Hamilton a pay increase, while the overall business health has plummeted and people are being retrenched, do not work in Hamilton's favour. It's just bad timing.

As was mentioned in another post, things are amicable until they become acrimonious. If either Mercedes or Hamilton begin to draw lines in the sand, the goodwill between both parties will vaporize.

Hamilton accepting less would actually be pragmatic in the long run, especially if he wants to maintain a working business relationship with Mercedes beyond his racing career.
They're all in this business to make money. Hamilton is not a CEO so he doesnt need a pay cut. Those ceos may have reduced salary but they have some stake in the company and i beleive mercedes was one of the few car makers that did well in 2020 or didnt do bad at all. They're all going home with more cash.
If hamilton takes less money now it sets a precedent for him. Success = less money.
In athletics if you break a record the Altheltics body is obligated to pay you your million dollars or whatever the prize is.
Anyhow we must separate the car industry from Formula1 team. The team came 1rst and won prize money.. Hamilton broke records and got knighted. People in the UK watched F1 because of Hamilton, hate him or love him. He is value added for mercedes sales in the uk and around the world.
I don't think he should backdown from his monetary demands. Maybe on some of the sillier stuff.

Also folks... what Merc doesnt want.. is Hamilton taking those 7wdc to another team and getting the 8 in ferrari or redbull..Remember that is also to be considered. He may as well go to Aston Martin, or the other 2 and become 8xwdc and merc are stuck with some hopefules but no great drivers.
They may even get desperate and pluck Alonso. lol
Mercedes shipped 7-8% fewer cars last year and will be downsizing their global workforce. Those are the facts.

Hamilton has very little scope to walk at this point. There are no seats available for 2021, certainly none of the caliber he would require to be truly competitive. Doing so would all but ensure he never wins another WDC.

Further, consider how the relationship between Michael Schumacher and Ferrari changed once he decided to drive for Mercedes. If Hamilton wanted to build a relationship with Mercedes 'the business' outside of F1, the quickest way to kill that ambition would be to leave for a competitor, especially after such a long and successful association.

Daimler have more bargaining chips, considering all factors at play. That said, I expect both parties to compromise.
  • Odds on, he will be driving for Mercedes.
  • Outside chance, but not unlikely, he won't be on the grid this year.
  • Longshot, driving for another team.
  • Moonshot, driving in IndyCar.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Fulcrum wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:17 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:23 pm
Fulcrum wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:38 am


Hamilton may very well have justified an increase in pay, unfortunately the circumstances have not been static. The pandemic has had a real effect on company bottom lines, Mercedes included.

If Hamilton gets $50M(+), he will be earning as much as half the workforce of the Mercedes F1 team combined, at a time when Daimler has already indicated it will cut 10,000 to 20,000 employees worldwide over the next couple of years.

There is an argument to be made that Hamilton is a more visible representation of the Mercedes brand, but I highly doubt he has greater influence on the global functioning of Daimler, certainly not as large as is implied by the discrepancy in pay between Hamilton and the Daimler CEO. Daimler executives have also taken a 20% paycut during the pandemic.

The optics of giving Hamilton a pay increase, while the overall business health has plummeted and people are being retrenched, do not work in Hamilton's favour. It's just bad timing.

As was mentioned in another post, things are amicable until they become acrimonious. If either Mercedes or Hamilton begin to draw lines in the sand, the goodwill between both parties will vaporize.

Hamilton accepting less would actually be pragmatic in the long run, especially if he wants to maintain a working business relationship with Mercedes beyond his racing career.
They're all in this business to make money. Hamilton is not a CEO so he doesnt need a pay cut. Those ceos may have reduced salary but they have some stake in the company and i beleive mercedes was one of the few car makers that did well in 2020 or didnt do bad at all. They're all going home with more cash.
If hamilton takes less money now it sets a precedent for him. Success = less money.
In athletics if you break a record the Altheltics body is obligated to pay you your million dollars or whatever the prize is.
Anyhow we must separate the car industry from Formula1 team. The team came 1rst and won prize money.. Hamilton broke records and got knighted. People in the UK watched F1 because of Hamilton, hate him or love him. He is value added for mercedes sales in the uk and around the world.
I don't think he should backdown from his monetary demands. Maybe on some of the sillier stuff.

Also folks... what Merc doesnt want.. is Hamilton taking those 7wdc to another team and getting the 8 in ferrari or redbull..Remember that is also to be considered. He may as well go to Aston Martin, or the other 2 and become 8xwdc and merc are stuck with some hopefules but no great drivers.
They may even get desperate and pluck Alonso. lol
Mercedes shipped 7-8% fewer cars last year and will be downsizing their global workforce. Those are the facts.

Hamilton has very little scope to walk at this point. There are no seats available for 2021, certainly none of the caliber he would require to be truly competitive. Doing so would all but ensure he never wins another WDC.

Further, consider how the relationship between Michael Schumacher and Ferrari changed once he decided to drive for Mercedes. If Hamilton wanted to build a relationship with Mercedes 'the business' outside of F1, the quickest way to kill that ambition would be to leave for a competitor, especially after such a long and successful association.

Daimler have more bargaining chips, considering all factors at play. That said, I expect both parties to compromise.
  • Odds on, he will be driving for Mercedes.
  • Outside chance, but not unlikely, he won't be on the grid this year.
  • Longshot, driving for another team.
  • Moonshot, driving in IndyCar.
Totally agree with those four options. I'd be pretty surprised if he's not in the car for the first race- even if it's on a race by race basis at first. Indycar for a year might be more likely than any other team unless Ferrari do something rash. He'd get a megabucks deal to do Indy and so much US exposure for himself, and again for F1 in the US if he then returns for 2022.

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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If the contract hasn’t been signed yet could there be things he or Mercedes wants?

1. Hamilton might want a stake in the Team but Ineos, Toto or Mercedes doesn’t agree.
2. Mercedes or sponsors/partners may not want him to express his views as publicly as he does.
3. Hamilton may want a veto on teammates and/or sponsors
4. Hamilton may not want to share Q1 and Q2 telemetry with team mates prior to Q3.

If there are sticking points in the contract negotiations I can’t see $M’s being the issue....he’s bloody good, still fast, has more appeal than most others on the grid and his record/stats speak for themselves. He’s a licence to print money, but if that licence costs too much or comes with just 1 undesirable condition then I’d think there very little appetite to keep him.

Let’s imagine they can’t agree on terms and Williams won’t let Russell go this year. I bet most drivers have clauses that if a team like Merc come knocking, they can negotiate and Russel may not have been in a position to have this clause in his latest contract.
Imagine Alonso, Ricciardo, Vettel or Vestappen in that car alongside Bottas for 1 year and then that driver plus Russel from 2022.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:08 pm
If the contract hasn’t been signed yet could there be things he or Mercedes wants?

1. Hamilton might want a stake in the Team but Ineos, Toto or Mercedes doesn’t agree.
2. Mercedes or sponsors/partners may not want him to express his views as publicly as he does.
3. Hamilton may want a veto on teammates and/or sponsors
4. Hamilton may not want to share Q1 and Q2 telemetry with team mates prior to Q3.

If there are sticking points in the contract negotiations I can’t see $M’s being the issue....he’s bloody good, still fast, has more appeal than most others on the grid and his record/stats speak for themselves. He’s a licence to print money, but if that licence costs too much or comes with just 1 undesirable condition then I’d think there very little appetite to keep him.

Let’s imagine they can’t agree on terms and Williams won’t let Russell go this year. I bet most drivers have clauses that if a team like Merc come knocking, they can negotiate and Russel may not have been in a position to have this clause in his latest contract.
Imagine Alonso, Ricciardo, Vettel or Vestappen in that car alongside Bottas for 1 year and then that driver plus Russel from 2022.
Dependent on where and what you read there seems to be some undesirable perceptions happening with B.l.m.
Could it be about displaying the slogan on the car or on Lewis person, or involving the name of Merc or F1 somehow?

I really hope not, we do not want F1 or Hamilton or Merc getting damaged or destroyed by politics.
(remember this if replying please)
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it-
Voltaire, or several other claimants.

Jolle
Jolle
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:43 pm
KeiKo403 wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:08 pm
If the contract hasn’t been signed yet could there be things he or Mercedes wants?

1. Hamilton might want a stake in the Team but Ineos, Toto or Mercedes doesn’t agree.
2. Mercedes or sponsors/partners may not want him to express his views as publicly as he does.
3. Hamilton may want a veto on teammates and/or sponsors
4. Hamilton may not want to share Q1 and Q2 telemetry with team mates prior to Q3.

If there are sticking points in the contract negotiations I can’t see $M’s being the issue....he’s bloody good, still fast, has more appeal than most others on the grid and his record/stats speak for themselves. He’s a licence to print money, but if that licence costs too much or comes with just 1 undesirable condition then I’d think there very little appetite to keep him.

Let’s imagine they can’t agree on terms and Williams won’t let Russell go this year. I bet most drivers have clauses that if a team like Merc come knocking, they can negotiate and Russel may not have been in a position to have this clause in his latest contract.
Imagine Alonso, Ricciardo, Vettel or Vestappen in that car alongside Bottas for 1 year and then that driver plus Russel from 2022.
Dependent on where and what you read there seems to be some undesirable perceptions happening with B.l.m.
Could it be about displaying the slogan on the car or on Lewis person, or involving the name of Merc or F1 somehow?

I really hope not, we do not want F1 or Hamilton or Merc getting damaged or destroyed by politics.
(remember this if replying please)
I don’t think a sign or a place on the car for ethical social causes wouldn’t be something Mercedes or their partners object to. From a marketing standpoint alone it’s proven to be revived as a positive thing. And F1 = marketing. Furthermore, Daimler, outside F1 haven’t been shy of supporting other social activists (just go through their portfolio of adds)

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Scorpaguy
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Image

...I think it must be his wardrobe.

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hUirEYExbN
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Scorpaguy wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:17 pm
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/12/11 ... 536612.jpg

...I think it must be his wardrobe.
Take the bucket hat and stupid shoes away and I'd happily wear that.

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GalacticHitchHiker
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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It's a well known fact that you cannot become a 7x WDC without eccentric fashion choices.