Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ajdavison2
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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holeindalip wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:25 pm

Ocon isn’t part of Mercedes program anymore, that ended when he left racing point and no ride so he signed a deal with renault....
I think Wolff said in an interview lately that Ocon is still very much on the cards, from what I understand he's still a Mercedes junior but on loan to Renault/Alpine.

Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ajdavison2 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:30 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:25 pm

Ocon isn’t part of Mercedes program anymore, that ended when he left racing point and no ride so he signed a deal with renault....
I think Wolff said in an interview lately that Ocon is still very much on the cards, from what I understand he's still a Mercedes junior but on loan to Renault/Alpine.
If you follow Wolff’s media appearances a bit you’ll find he never says no to a question about a driver. He’s standerd answer is always in line with: we are very happy with our current lineup but keep all our possibilities open, <insert drivers name> is certainly someone we follow, let’s see what the future brings.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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JordanMugen wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:05 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:38 am
Bottas - Russell
If Ocon is within 1-3 tenths of Alonso, just like with Ricciardo, then surely Ocon is just as good of a choice as Bottas? :)
As someone else mentioned above, there is more to building a successful team than just grabbing the best two available drivers. It almost always ends in tears as ego and clash of interests inevitably gets in the way. Mercedes discovered this in 2014, and moved to avoid it from 2017 onward which is why they go for the harmonious and stable approach.

If Hamilton is to retire and Russell gets that seat, then why would you cause more upheaval and change the other driver too? Continuity is good. Bottas knows the team and the team knows Bottas. I could see it changing in 2023 if Russell doesn't deliver what they expect from him, but not otherwise.

However, I would be fairly surprised if it's not Hamilton and Russell in the cars.

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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It's really up to Hamilton. He could force Mercedes into a corner they themselves provided.

Let's say Hamilton signs with Aston Martin to replace Stroll for 2022.
That'll be Hamilton-Vettel @ Aston Martin, the team that transformed into Mercedes 2.0 - not even the B-team but rather becoming it's twin.
That is a extremely strong pairing. Volatile, but superbly powerfull.

LeClerc-Sainz is not even remotely in that league, but Ferrari is locked for now so they can't change to 'adapt'.

Mercedes will have to adapt, after all, losing your star driver is going to hurt.
Who to pair it to then?

Russell has proven to be blazingly fast, adaptive and capable, but needs time to grow. It's only logical he'll be signed to Mercedes either way,
but still, you need a star, proven, race-winning driver.

Bottas may have gotten some wins under his belt, but he is far from a star, and definately not what Mercedes needs in such a scenario.
After all, Russell is fast, but the combo Russell-Bottas is quite questionable against Hamilton-Vettel.

What Mercedes in that case would absolutely need is the only proven driver right now that can directly challenge Hamilton: Verstappen.
But replacing Hamilton with Verstappen, and pairing Max to Valterri means you also guaranteed are going to lose Russell soon.

Hence, the only choice Mercedes in such a case has is to actually also ditch Bottas, and pair Verstappen with Russell.
This would definately be a very interesting and extremely powerful and fast combination.

Verstappen would surely jump in on that chance with one exception: if RedBull-Honda turns out to actually be more dominant than Mercedes for 2021.
I don't think that to be the case at all not even by a mile though. But if RBR-Honda manages to do 'wonders', then Max is more likely to stay.

If not, then 2022 could become a very, very interesting F1 season should the above take place.

After all, look at this:

Aston Martin Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel

AMG Mercedes
Max Verstappen
George Russell

RedBull Honda
Sergio Perez
Yuki Tsunoda

Alpine Renault
Fernando Alonso
Pierre Gasly

Scuderia Ferrari
Carlos Sainz Jr
Charles Leclerc
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

holeindalip
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ajdavison2 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:30 pm
holeindalip wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:25 pm

Ocon isn’t part of Mercedes program anymore, that ended when he left racing point and no ride so he signed a deal with renault....
I think Wolff said in an interview lately that Ocon is still very much on the cards, from what I understand he's still a Mercedes junior but on loan to Renault/Alpine.
Nope he’s out of the program, maybe still on their radar but that’s about as far as it goes...

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:55 pm
It's really up to Hamilton. He could force Mercedes into a corner they themselves provided.

Let's say Hamilton signs with Aston Martin to replace Stroll for 2022.
That'll be Hamilton-Vettel @ Aston Martin, the team that transformed into Mercedes 2.0 - not even the B-team but rather becoming it's twin.
That is a extremely strong pairing. Volatile, but superbly powerfull.

LeClerc-Sainz is not even remotely in that league, but Ferrari is locked for now so they can't change to 'adapt'.

Mercedes will have to adapt, after all, losing your star driver is going to hurt.
Who to pair it to then?

Russell has proven to be blazingly fast, adaptive and capable, but needs time to grow. It's only logical he'll be signed to Mercedes either way,
but still, you need a star, proven, race-winning driver.

Bottas may have gotten some wins under his belt, but he is far from a star, and definately not what Mercedes needs in such a scenario.
After all, Russell is fast, but the combo Russell-Bottas is quite questionable against Hamilton-Vettel.

What Mercedes in that case would absolutely need is the only proven driver right now that can directly challenge Hamilton: Verstappen.
But replacing Hamilton with Verstappen, and pairing Max to Valterri means you also guaranteed are going to lose Russell soon.

Hence, the only choice Mercedes in such a case has is to actually also ditch Bottas, and pair Verstappen with Russell.
This would definately be a very interesting and extremely powerful and fast combination.

Verstappen would surely jump in on that chance with one exception: if RedBull-Honda turns out to actually be more dominant than Mercedes for 2021.
I don't think that to be the case at all not even by a mile though. But if RBR-Honda manages to do 'wonders', then Max is more likely to stay.

If not, then 2022 could become a very, very interesting F1 season should the above take place.

After all, look at this:

Aston Martin Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel

AMG Mercedes
Max Verstappen
George Russell

RedBull Honda
Sergio Perez
Yuki Tsunoda

Alpine Renault
Fernando Alonso
Pierre Gasly

Scuderia Ferrari
Carlos Sainz Jr
Charles Leclerc
Why would Hamilton want to leave Mercedes, and why would they want to lose him to a customer team? This Hamilton to Aston Martin stuff really makes no sense at all. Added to the fact Stroll Sr is going to get rid of Vettel first rather than his own son. This seems like fantasy stuff rather than anything that's likely to come true. I can see those line ups at Alpine and Ferrari, but not in a million years the other three.

Peter1919
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:25 pm
Why would Hamilton want to leave Mercedes, and why would they want to lose him to a customer team? This Hamilton to Aston Martin stuff really makes no sense at all. Added to the fact Stroll Sr is going to get rid of Vettel first rather than his own son. This seems like fantasy stuff rather than anything that's likely to come true. I can see those line ups at Alpine and Ferrari, but not in a million years the other three.
I was going to say the same thing

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hUirEYExbN
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:25 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:55 pm
It's really up to Hamilton. He could force Mercedes into a corner they themselves provided.

Let's say Hamilton signs with Aston Martin to replace Stroll for 2022.
That'll be Hamilton-Vettel @ Aston Martin, the team that transformed into Mercedes 2.0 - not even the B-team but rather becoming it's twin.
That is a extremely strong pairing. Volatile, but superbly powerfull.

LeClerc-Sainz is not even remotely in that league, but Ferrari is locked for now so they can't change to 'adapt'.

Mercedes will have to adapt, after all, losing your star driver is going to hurt.
Who to pair it to then?

Russell has proven to be blazingly fast, adaptive and capable, but needs time to grow. It's only logical he'll be signed to Mercedes either way,
but still, you need a star, proven, race-winning driver.

Bottas may have gotten some wins under his belt, but he is far from a star, and definately not what Mercedes needs in such a scenario.
After all, Russell is fast, but the combo Russell-Bottas is quite questionable against Hamilton-Vettel.

What Mercedes in that case would absolutely need is the only proven driver right now that can directly challenge Hamilton: Verstappen.
But replacing Hamilton with Verstappen, and pairing Max to Valterri means you also guaranteed are going to lose Russell soon.

Hence, the only choice Mercedes in such a case has is to actually also ditch Bottas, and pair Verstappen with Russell.
This would definately be a very interesting and extremely powerful and fast combination.

Verstappen would surely jump in on that chance with one exception: if RedBull-Honda turns out to actually be more dominant than Mercedes for 2021.
I don't think that to be the case at all not even by a mile though. But if RBR-Honda manages to do 'wonders', then Max is more likely to stay.

If not, then 2022 could become a very, very interesting F1 season should the above take place.

After all, look at this:

Aston Martin Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel

AMG Mercedes
Max Verstappen
George Russell

RedBull Honda
Sergio Perez
Yuki Tsunoda

Alpine Renault
Fernando Alonso
Pierre Gasly

Scuderia Ferrari
Carlos Sainz Jr
Charles Leclerc
Why would Hamilton want to leave Mercedes, and why would they want to lose him to a customer team? This Hamilton to Aston Martin stuff really makes no sense at all. Added to the fact Stroll Sr is going to get rid of Vettel first rather than his own son. This seems like fantasy stuff rather than anything that's likely to come true. I can see those line ups at Alpine and Ferrari, but not in a million years the other three.
It's the silly season thread, by definition it is fantasy. Besides, it's Manoah2u, he really seems to love stretching his imagination in these threads. It certainly beats the same old predictions repeated ad nauseam for 25 pages.

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Peter1919 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:34 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:25 pm
Why would Hamilton want to leave Mercedes, and why would they want to lose him to a customer team? This Hamilton to Aston Martin stuff really makes no sense at all. Added to the fact Stroll Sr is going to get rid of Vettel first rather than his own son. This seems like fantasy stuff rather than anything that's likely to come true. I can see those line ups at Alpine and Ferrari, but not in a million years the other three.
I was going to say the same thing
like the guy above me points out.....yeah, silly season mate.

Or do people rather have a grid representing Marcus Ericsson, Stoffel VanDoorne, Joylon Palmer, Esteban Guitterez, Pascal Wehrlein, Sergey Sirotkin, Brendon Hartley, Rio Haryanto, Max Chilton, Paul di Resta and Charles Pic?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:45 am
Peter1919 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:34 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:25 pm
Why would Hamilton want to leave Mercedes, and why would they want to lose him to a customer team? This Hamilton to Aston Martin stuff really makes no sense at all. Added to the fact Stroll Sr is going to get rid of Vettel first rather than his own son. This seems like fantasy stuff rather than anything that's likely to come true. I can see those line ups at Alpine and Ferrari, but not in a million years the other three.
I was going to say the same thing
like the guy above me points out.....yeah, silly season mate.

Or do people rather have a grid representing Marcus Ericsson, Stoffel VanDoorne, Joylon Palmer, Esteban Guitterez, Pascal Wehrlein, Sergey Sirotkin, Brendon Hartley, Rio Haryanto, Max Chilton, Paul di Resta and Charles Pic?
you forgot Alex Albon....

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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holeindalip wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:00 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:45 am
Peter1919 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:34 pm

I was going to say the same thing
like the guy above me points out.....yeah, silly season mate.

Or do people rather have a grid representing Marcus Ericsson, Stoffel VanDoorne, Joylon Palmer, Esteban Guitterez, Pascal Wehrlein, Sergey Sirotkin, Brendon Hartley, Rio Haryanto, Max Chilton, Paul di Resta and Charles Pic?
you forgot Alex Albon....
And Will Stevens :lol:

and many more for that matter :lol:
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS4.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:55 pm

AMG Mercedes
Max Verstappen
George Russell
I wouldn't mind seeing that. I reckon George would make Max's life very difficult and make him dig deep.

And, yes, I think the same would apply between George and Lewis.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:45 am
Peter1919 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:34 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:25 pm
Why would Hamilton want to leave Mercedes, and why would they want to lose him to a customer team? This Hamilton to Aston Martin stuff really makes no sense at all. Added to the fact Stroll Sr is going to get rid of Vettel first rather than his own son. This seems like fantasy stuff rather than anything that's likely to come true. I can see those line ups at Alpine and Ferrari, but not in a million years the other three.
I was going to say the same thing
like the guy above me points out.....yeah, silly season mate.

Or do people rather have a grid representing Marcus Ericsson, Stoffel VanDoorne, Joylon Palmer, Esteban Guitterez, Pascal Wehrlein, Sergey Sirotkin, Brendon Hartley, Rio Haryanto, Max Chilton, Paul di Resta and Charles Pic?
Oh, so it's just your fantasy line up. Not a great deal of point in discussing then. As you were.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:39 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:45 am
Peter1919 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:34 pm

I was going to say the same thing
like the guy above me points out.....yeah, silly season mate.

Or do people rather have a grid representing Marcus Ericsson, Stoffel VanDoorne, Joylon Palmer, Esteban Guitterez, Pascal Wehrlein, Sergey Sirotkin, Brendon Hartley, Rio Haryanto, Max Chilton, Paul di Resta and Charles Pic?
Oh, so it's just your fantasy line up. Not a great deal of point in discussing then. As you were.
Offcourse it's a great deal of discussing #-o
Anybody can put something up, and so they do, and so they should.

And if you're not capable or willing to discuss someone else's 'ideas', fine, 'as you were'. As you can see however, there are people who do agree to such a combo being interesting. But hey, each to their own. As you were.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:01 am
holeindalip wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:00 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:45 am


like the guy above me points out.....yeah, silly season mate.

Or do people rather have a grid representing Marcus Ericsson, Stoffel VanDoorne, Joylon Palmer, Esteban Guitterez, Pascal Wehrlein, Sergey Sirotkin, Brendon Hartley, Rio Haryanto, Max Chilton, Paul di Resta and Charles Pic?
you forgot Alex Albon....
And Will Stevens :lol:

and many more for that matter :lol:
I think Karthikeyan and Albers should get a shot at the AMG Mercedes :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Palmer and Haryanto in the Ferrari, Di Resta and Pic in the RedBull, Sirotkin and Ericsson in the Aston :mrgreen:
And Take Inoue should make a grand comeback too.

Either way, 2022 is going to partially reshape/reboot the F1 field i think, and if in 2025/2026 we get a new engine formula that's going to reset the field once again.

A variety of current drivers by then will have had enough. Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen, Bottas, even a recently returned Alonso, they'll all certainly be going on F1 retirement by 2026.
That'll leave guys like Ricciardo, Verstappen, Sainz, LeClerc, Norris, Russell as the 'then generation' with what F1 will have to do, with Ricciardo being the 'old guy' by then by F1 standards.
However it is, whatever we think of them, the F1 teams must invest and prepare for that future and find the talent they are looking for and fits, and all the teams will 'fight' with eachother for those drivers for their seats, likewise the drivers are also going to 'fight' for the seats as the available seats will be finite, and the talentpool to use in F1 is also finite.

Hence, now is the moment where teams need to start working and planning for, not the least because 2022 will have more than one change.

And since drivers are not included in the budget cap, teams can look differently to how and why they should hire which driver. The amount they can invest in a car is finite. Having Hamilton or having Joylon Palmer doesn't change an iota on how much the teams can invest in the car.
If hamilton wants like 50 million, that doesn't mean they have 50 million less to invest in the car. so the driver's salary does not hamper the car itself, even if Palmer only would cost like a 100 grand, or even pay for a seat.

However, now it gets REALLY down to what the driver can achieve with that car. In other words, investing in Hamilton who wants 50, is worth it because you'll know he will get you that WDC, that WCC, and tens of millions more of sponsorship/business exposure. Meanwhile, Palmer, will get you plum last in the WDC and WCC, so no way.

The driver suddenly becomes vastly more important, so guys like Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso, Vettel and their capabilities and experience suddenly are worth a lot more. The only thing 'hanging' on them is their (natural) expiry date. The moment where these drivers' age will start influincing their capabilities, aswell as their inevitable decline of motivation, when they've achieved enough, driven enough, and made enough.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.