2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Camshafts are usually made out of steel. They have to be extremely robust because they do not have hydrodynamic lubrication. The camshaft only spins at half the engine RPM, but it is subjected to much more friction than the pistons. Similar to the crankshaft, the camshafts require a girdle that locates them.

Image

If Honda made this more compact, then it stands to reason the cams are thinner, and the girdle is closer to the valve tappets/rockers.

However I don't think he's merely talking about the camshafts, rather the cylinder heads. This means globally the engine has shrunk. Skeleton meaning all the fat has been trimmed away. In fact it only burns fat now :)
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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:45 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:18 pm
(stupid head attached here) Probably not the right place to ask it, and no doubt it is obvious to those who closely follow the aero rules, but the huge 'gap' beneath the rear of the car, can they put anything in it? such as another winglet? It would be in the area 'filled' with car if the rake angle was not so steep, so can it be used at all?
Why a high rake car is less affected?

The air that spills off the car is further away from the ground, thus less prone to ground effect and interacting with the tire squirt.

The Mercedes had the advantage of wider floor and brake ducts, and could manage the tire squirt that way. Their complex shapes are good, but with lower rake, the air spilling off the car is more affected by ground effect and tire squirt. The Red Bull has higher rake, and is less affected by ground effect, reducing the interaction with tire squirt.

To an extent this explains why the heat affects Mercedes more than Red Bull.

Mercedes now has to adapt and add rake to the car. In other words it's Mercedes that's starting on the back foot, and Red Bull is starting in a good position. Can Mercedes catch up? Likely, but they'd be sacrificing 2022 to do so.
The way I was considering it, comparing the merc as in your reply, in front of and between the rear wheels, at a height of say 50 mm there is 'stuff' like the bodywork and aero. On th eRed bull at the exact same place there is nothing, you just see straight through. It is possible or even beneficial to put a sort of beam wing here? It would presumably create downforce, but would the disruption of airflow outweigh a benefit?
We are sitting on the shoulders of giants so we can see more things than they can

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Bandit1216
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:01 pm
Camshafts are usually made out of steel. They have to be extremely robust because they do not have hydrodynamic lubrication. The camshaft only spins at half the engine RPM, but it is subjected to much more friction than the pistons. Similar to the crankshaft, the camshafts require a girdle that locates them.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/m8UAAOSw ... s-l400.jpg

If Honda made this more compact, then it stands to reason the cams are thinner, and the girdle is closer to the valve tappets/rockers.

However I don't think he's merely talking about the camshafts, rather the cylinder heads. This means globally the engine has shrunk. Skeleton meaning all the fat has been trimmed away. In fact it only burns fat now :)
Yes, I think so. "valve angle" in this context means the angle between the valves themselves resulting in more doomed combustion chamber, lower but wider head, and changed flow path.

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:05 pm
Great post. THank you.
I think, according to what Hachigo san have said, it must be really good gain at compactness of engine otherwise he wouldn't talk about redbull's gain at car design.
In the same time I understand that they are at the attack mode rather than being cautious. I am looking forward to see full power of engine at the first Q.
You mean what Asaki-san said, not Hachigo.

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:35 pm
etusch wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:05 pm
Great post. THank you.
I think, according to what Hachigo san have said, it must be really good gain at compactness of engine otherwise he wouldn't talk about redbull's gain at car design.
In the same time I understand that they are at the attack mode rather than being cautious. I am looking forward to see full power of engine at the first Q.
You mean what Asaki-san said, not Hachigo.
Thank you for correction @ispano6. My bad.

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dren
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Bandit1216 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:50 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:01 pm
Camshafts are usually made out of steel. They have to be extremely robust because they do not have hydrodynamic lubrication. The camshaft only spins at half the engine RPM, but it is subjected to much more friction than the pistons. Similar to the crankshaft, the camshafts require a girdle that locates them.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/m8UAAOSw ... s-l400.jpg

If Honda made this more compact, then it stands to reason the cams are thinner, and the girdle is closer to the valve tappets/rockers.

However I don't think he's merely talking about the camshafts, rather the cylinder heads. This means globally the engine has shrunk. Skeleton meaning all the fat has been trimmed away. In fact it only burns fat now :)
Yes, I think so. "valve angle" in this context means the angle between the valves themselves resulting in more doomed combustion chamber, lower but wider head, and changed flow path.
Skeleton I'd take to mean architecture.

Lower CG, reduce pumping losses via improved intake flow, allow for new combustion chamber design, etc.
Honda!

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Think also what this means with regards to compression ratio. The higher the compression ratio the lower the distance between the piston and the top of the combustion chamber. By lowering the head you will increase compression ratio so the valves have to be repositioned so that they do not contact the piston crown.
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SmOgER
SmOgER
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ImageImage

SirBastianVettel
SirBastianVettel
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Is this one of those “corporate needs you to find the differences” pictures? Or is there something specific you want to show with this picture?

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Zynerji
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just diffuser shots?🤔🤔

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SirBastianVettel wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:45 pm

Is this one of those “corporate needs you to find the differences” pictures? Or is there something specific you want to show with this picture?
Not exclusively I reckon, but getting there or therabouts ...

Image
HuggaWugga !

wowgr8
wowgr8
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:05 pm

Great post. THank you.
I think, according to what Hachigo san have said, it must be really good gain at compactness of engine otherwise he wouldn't talk about redbull's gain at car design.
In the same time I understand that they are at the attack mode rather than being cautious. I am looking forward to see full power of engine at the first Q.
Remember we won't get to see full power because of the Monza rule change. Seems that slips a lot of people's minds, I rarely hear people talk about it, in fact I don't think I've heard anyone talk about it. I really really wish we'd hear the manufacturers and team personnel talk about it and how the change has affected how they use the PU, even in test sessions

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Rushu
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Translated with DeepL

"What is Honda's involvement in the Red Bull PU? LPL Asaki: "It depends on the contract with Red Bull
Honda is ending its F1 activities at the end of this season, and from 2022 onwards, Red Bull, the current power unit (PU) supplier, will take over the project and set up a new company called Red Bull Powertrains to operate it.

In 2021, Honda will introduce an "almost new" PU with a new framework. In addition, the development of the PU will be frozen from 2022 until 2025, when the next generation PU will be introduced, and it was believed that Honda will also develop the PU that Red Bull and Alpha Tauri will use in 2022.
As for the PU development plan for 2022, Honda said, "We have announced the basic idea that Red Bull will manufacture and compete in PU using the technology that Honda has developed, but we are still working out the details with Red Bull. The details are being worked out with Red Bull.

At the season preview held prior to the start of the season, Yasuaki Asaki, head of the HRD Sakura center and large project leader of the F1 project, talked about the PU development schedule for 2022.

We've been using Honda's PU for a while now, so we've been able to decide what we want to do. We have been using Honda's PU until now, so we have decided what we want to do. Whether Honda will develop or manufacture the PU from next year onwards depends on the contract, but basically it will be Red Bull's engine (PU), so they will make the final decision on what to do or not to do. We would like to ask Honda to do this, and if a contract is signed, we will do it.

However, since E10 (10% ethanol blended) fuel is scheduled to be introduced in 2022, Honda has started development ahead of time to comply with the regulations.

We have to comply with the regulations in order to be able to race, so even though we haven't signed a contract yet, we've started development.

Other than that, it's up to the contract.

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wowgr8
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Do Red Bull push their rear end to the level they did this year without Merc setting the bar with their design last year? I guess we'll never know but my thinking is they drew a whole lot of inspiration from what Mercedes did, that's my biggest gripe with Red Bull at the moment, they have Newey and a huge budget but they aren't as innovative and proactive as Mercedes are (at least on a macro level), in my opinion.

Ferrari brought on the lowered SIPS and to some extent the outwash front wing concept that have both become mainstream, Mercedes brought on DAS, the POU offset (not completely sure whether this first appeared on the 2019 Mercedes though), the reversal of the LR wishbone setup etc etc, with Red Bull you don't really see this sort of big innovation in recent years, they're 1 or more steps behind Mercedes at all times, in 2021 we still don't know where Merc spent their tokens but I'm willing to bet it's something none of the other teams thought of.

I'm not sure why it is the way it is, and I doubt it's got to do with budget, maybe it's just as simple as Mercedes having better engineers?

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lio007
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Nice little pitot tubes under the floor (rear right)