2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Singabule
Singabule
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Good article, Honda believe they’ve exceeded Mercedes 2020 engine level,

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-be ... des-level/
Thanks, really good article, compared to motorsports one. :D

Kingshark
Kingshark
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Good article, Honda believe they’ve exceeded Mercedes 2020 engine level,

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-be ... des-level/
From what I have read, Mercedes had about 25 horsepower on Honda in 2020. I also believe that Honda brought a 40 horsepower upgrade for 2021. Elementary maths puts Honda 15 horsepower ahead of the old Merc engine. Now what remains to be seen is how much Mercedes have gained for this year.

I hope it’s no more than 20 horsepower at most so we can have a level playing field at the front.

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godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Suppose they brought 30, that would close the gap to 10hp. That's enough for Max to do his thing.
Saishū kōnā

Singabule
Singabule
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:47 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Kingshark wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:29 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Good article, Honda believe they’ve exceeded Mercedes 2020 engine level,

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-be ... des-level/
From what I have read, Mercedes had about 25 horsepower on Honda in 2020. I also believe that Honda brought a 40 horsepower upgrade for 2021. Elementary maths puts Honda 15 horsepower ahead of the old Merc engine. Now what remains to be seen is how much Mercedes have gained for this year.

I hope it’s no more than 20 horsepower at most so we can have a level playing field at the front.
If we add on all HP BS talk since 2017,the engine already hit 1140HP now. Forget about it, that only media BS. Just hope Merc didnt solve their rear end instability in 3 races.

Kingshark
Kingshark
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 4:41 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Singabule wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:13 am
Kingshark wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:29 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Good article, Honda believe they’ve exceeded Mercedes 2020 engine level,

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-be ... des-level/
From what I have read, Mercedes had about 25 horsepower on Honda in 2020. I also believe that Honda brought a 40 horsepower upgrade for 2021. Elementary maths puts Honda 15 horsepower ahead of the old Merc engine. Now what remains to be seen is how much Mercedes have gained for this year.

I hope it’s no more than 20 horsepower at most so we can have a level playing field at the front.
If we add on all HP BS talk since 2017,the engine already hit 1140HP now. Forget about it, that only media BS. Just hope Merc didnt solve their rear end instability in 3 races.
I am far more worried about the engine than I am about the chassis. I am confident in Red Bull’s ability to build and develop a chassis that can compete with Mercedes, but if the engine is inferior then there’s nothing the boys and girls at Milton Keynes can do to compensate for that.

MKlaus
MKlaus
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Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:22 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Kingshark wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:29 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Good article, Honda believe they’ve exceeded Mercedes 2020 engine level,

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-be ... des-level/
From what I have read, Mercedes had about 25 horsepower on Honda in 2020. I also believe that Honda brought a 40 horsepower upgrade for 2021. Elementary maths puts Honda 15 horsepower ahead of the old Merc engine. Now what remains to be seen is how much Mercedes have gained for this year.

I hope it’s no more than 20 horsepower at most so we can have a level playing field at the front.
i find this talk of extra horse power a bit funny. given the fact that the ruling changed last year for engine modes, no one can run their existing power to depletion levels on the ICE side, so the ultimate power output comparison is out of the window. if one assumes a mercedes ICE was delivering 900 hp last year in strat 2 mode, they couldn't use that anymore after the ruling and should have been running at least 100 hp less in the new quali/race mode. same applies for other manufacturers. there can be some gains made on electrical boost, but much smaller. the other way of gaining is to enhance the reliability to run the ICE harder than last year, which can be considered a gain. they don't have to enhance the peak power on ICE side, but simply has to improve the reliability. with engine freeze coming, anyone who can enhance the reliability to take the ICE back to 900 (theoretical) hp in quali/race mode would be a huge gainer, other than minor gains on electrical side.

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_cerber1
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm
Location: From Russia with love

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Kingshark wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:29 pm
I hope it’s no more than 20 horsepower at most so we can have a level playing field at the front.
James Ellison said the engine cowling lip is not aerodynamically optimal, I doubt they would sacrifice that for 20 hp.

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godlameroso
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Singabule wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:13 am
Kingshark wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:29 pm
Ground Effect wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:34 pm
Good article, Honda believe they’ve exceeded Mercedes 2020 engine level,

https://the-race.com/formula-1/honda-be ... des-level/
From what I have read, Mercedes had about 25 horsepower on Honda in 2020. I also believe that Honda brought a 40 horsepower upgrade for 2021. Elementary maths puts Honda 15 horsepower ahead of the old Merc engine. Now what remains to be seen is how much Mercedes have gained for this year.

I hope it’s no more than 20 horsepower at most so we can have a level playing field at the front.
If we add on all HP BS talk since 2017,the engine already hit 1140HP now. Forget about it, that only media BS. Just hope Merc didnt solve their rear end instability in 3 races.
2015 Honda HP undisclosed, estimated at pre-season 860hp.
2016 Honda HP estimated at 890hp by Suzuka.
2017 Honda HP estimated 850, ~885 at season's end.
2018 Honda HP estimated ~900, 925 by season's end.
2019 Honda HP estimated 940, 965 with spec 3.
2020 Honda HP estimated 990-1000 with final spec
2021 Honda HP estimated 1025 base line, maybe 1035 is possible.

Mercedes estimated to be ~1045hp last season after mode change they lost around 10hp, plus what they gained during winter.
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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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hasika
hasika
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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HP talk is always BS,no one know the exact figures.
Asaki san said he felt Honda was behind Mercedes after Austria GP last year,but not sure how much because he cant see the rivals'data.No one can,maybe only FIA knows.
From what he said in the press briefing,he seems to be confident about this season.He didnt say directly but he seems to be very confident even if Mercedes make a similar gain like last year.If you know japanese language and read the original article without translation.
From this point of view,i think a more realistic gap was 20-25hp last year,so this year honda can be so confident.I cant image honda to be so confident if the gap was 35hp.I dont like the meaningless HP talk though,all the HP talk is based on nothing but guess.
Last edited by hasika on Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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hasika wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:31 am
HP talk is always BS,no one know the exact figures.
Asaki san said he felt Honda was behind Mercedes after Austria GP last year,but not sure how much because he cant see the rivals'data.No one can,maybe only FIA knows.
From what he said in the press briefing,he seems to be confident about this season.He didnt say directly but he seems to be very confident even if Mercedes make a similar gain like last year.If you know japanese language and read the original article without translation.
From this point of view,i think a more realistic gap is 20-25hp,so honda can be so confident.I cant image honda to be so confident if the gap was 35hp.I dont like the meaningless HP talk though,all the HP talk is based on nothing but guess.

@Hasika, do you really think Honda is still 20-25HP behind Mercedes with the new engine?
I don't think Asaki would be so confident then.
I myself think they are on the same level, if Mercedes has made the same leap as other years during the winter.

hasika
hasika
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:12 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:54 am
hasika wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:31 am
HP talk is always BS,no one know the exact figures.
Asaki san said he felt Honda was behind Mercedes after Austria GP last year,but not sure how much because he cant see the rivals'data.No one can,maybe only FIA knows.
From what he said in the press briefing,he seems to be confident about this season.He didnt say directly but he seems to be very confident even if Mercedes make a similar gain like last year.If you know japanese language and read the original article without translation.
From this point of view,i think a more realistic gap is 20-25hp,so honda can be so confident.I cant image honda to be so confident if the gap was 35hp.I dont like the meaningless HP talk though,all the HP talk is based on nothing but guess.

@Hasika, do you really think Honda is still 20-25HP behind Mercedes with the new engine?
I don't think Asaki would be so confident then.
I myself think they are on the same level, if Mercedes has made the same leap as other years during the winter.
My fault...I means that maybe the gap last year was 20-25hp or even less,and Honda must make big progress with the new PU.So they seems to be very confident this year.
Last edited by hasika on Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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hasika wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:53 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:54 am
hasika wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:31 am
From this point of view,i think a more realistic gap is 20-25hp,so honda can be so confident.I cant image honda to be so confident if the gap was 35hp.I dont like the meaningless HP talk though,all the HP talk is based on nothing but guess.
.
@Hasika, do you really think Honda is still 20-25HP behind Mercedes with the new engine?
I don't think Asaki would be so confident then.
I myself think they are on the same level, if Mercedes has made the same leap as other years during the winter.
.
My fault...I means that maybe the gap last year was 20-25hp or even less, so Honda can be so confident this year.
In that case, I totally agree with you. :)

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Wouter
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fellowhoodlums
fellowhoodlums
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Let’s all remember that HP isn’t a straightforward measurement.

KJ
Driveabililty
ERS delivery

All important factors.