2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

apparently max wasnt using full power so more to come

Interesting. Do you have a source for that?

Helmut Marko told that on Servus TV, he used less power (precaution) because a problem with the diff.

[DChemTech]

So what? You can't reason that Max is in right because he was using illegal part less.

read again, I am not arguing that.

From my point of view, you are.

I'm saying it quite clearly I think.
"both would be warned and ultimately penalized."

The observation that Hamilton was gaining more in this case is simply that: an observation, which, if anything, defends that any driver crossing the line should be penalized, because by not doing that you may implicitly be providing one driver an advantage over another, and you get the ambiguities and controversies we have now.
It's not a defense of Max in any way.

[Sieper]

21.2 Race
a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as
the defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location.

>>>> b)In all cases during the race, Drivers are reminded of the provisions of Article 27.3 of the Sporting Regulations.

>>>> 27.3 Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so
and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the Race Director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.

Max and Lewis inT4.
Max drives how it should be and Lewis does it deliberately not, because that gives him a 0.2 sec time gain advantage each round = gaining any lasting advantage.
And I'm only talking about the gain by driving the ideal line, not even the lesser deterioration of the tire because it wears less because of the wider curve.

What do you mean by "it should be"?
I most cases Max is also with ALL 4 wheels over white line. That is also illegal, isn't it?

Normally yes, but here, even during qualy (and FP!!) where T4 excursion were deleted it was allowed to use the kerbs. So no, in this case that was the limit and Max remained withing the limits for the most part, Lewis blatantly cut the track for 29 laps and stewards ignored it. Why? and Why did RBR spot it so late. It was a big factor in Lewis in the end winning the race. It leaves me feeling cheated.

[Just_a_fan]

apparently max wasnt using full power so more to come

Interesting. Do you have a source for that?

Helmut Marko told that on Servus TV, he used less power (precaution) because a problem with the diff.

I wonder how they use less power in these days of restricted maps. Presumably they just use less deployment and thus get less peak power through the diff, but then get to use the deployable energy for more of the lap.

[Just_a_fan]

Normally yes, but here, even during qualy (and FP!!) where T4 excursion were deleted it was allowed to use the kerbs. So no, in this case that was the limit and Max remained withing the limits for the most part, Lewis blatantly cut the track for 29 laps and stewards ignored it. Why? and Why did RBR spot it so late. It was a big factor in Lewis in the end winning the race. It leaves me feeling cheated.

Which part of the fact that the drivers were told in the briefing that they could use the outside of turn 4 without penalty during the race don't you understand? Hamilton did nothing wrong. Max could have done what Hamilton did but either chose not to or, more likely, didn't realise he could do it. Indeed, when told by Horner to drive there he said "it's illegal" which tells us that Max hadn't picked up what the race director had said. That's down to Max not paying attention and to Lewis paying attention.

It's these little things that can make a difference and the sort of thing that Max needs to remember. No doubt he will learn from it and not make the same mistake next time.

The annoying thing is not that the rule was applied the way it was, but that it was changed part way through the race. That was entirely unreasonable.

[PhillipM]

The reason it was changed mid-race was probably because Red Bull got on the radio to *tell* him to use it.
Which falls foul of the directive already issued that they wouldn't be punished for it so long as it wasn't deliberate - rule 27.3 states - "Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason"

Lewis going "I ran a bit wide on the corner exit as the TD said it doesn't matter too much there so I didn't worry too much if the car was sliding" is enough of a reason to get away with it.
"My team radio messaged me and said to drive off the track because it's faster" - is not a justifiable reason, or reasonable effort to stay on track.

The RD needs a kicking, yes - track limits have been a farce for years, just make the damned cars stay on the track and stop being lenient with it, end of - but all the RB fanboys complaining it was changed when it was RB's fault it was, is laughable.

The rules were clear, the directive was clear, the overtake was outright illegal either way, Max bottled it instead of having some patience, as usual. He's got a whole season to mature and take the fight to Lewis. He didn't have it this time, entirely his own fault.

[Wouter]

From the race directors notes about track limits during the race:

21.2 Race
a) The track limits at the exit of Turn 4 will not be monitored with regard to setting a lap time, as
the defining limits are the artificial grass and the gravel trap in that location.

Huh??

I was asking this, because it was the oppositeduring qualifying.

Someone gives me a downvote what says:

"Overtaking off-piste is prohibited and does not fall under this rule!"

I wasn't mention the overtaking at all!! I just asked myself why the rules were changed since qualifying.

Getting a downvote for this is ridiculous!! As always.

Why is here no moderation for downvotes!? The reasons for downvoting are getting more and more ridiculous here!

Everyone can downvote what they want. Why is nothing being done about it?

[Juzh]

Interesting. Do you have a source for that?

Helmut Marko told that on Servus TV, he used less power (precaution) because a problem with the diff.

I wonder how they use less power in these days of restricted maps. Presumably they just use less deployment and thus get less peak power through the diff, but then get to use the deployable energy for more of the lap.

It's per the rules that you can still change ICE engine maps during the race if it's to safeguard reliability and you must declare that to the fia asap. That probably means decreased performance at least in some way, otherwise I don't believe FIA would allow change to stand or even DSQ you.

Max did change engine setting to mode 10 shortly after telling the team a second time that there is a problem. If previous years are anything to go by mode 10 is not a very high power mode. Usually their more powerful mode was mode 6, and then he'd be instructed to go to mode 7 or 8 for fast charging. He changed it back and forth multiple times trough the race. He also changed something called "engine 6 position 7" and multiple variations of that (engine 11 position 10 and so on). So god only knows what you can and can't do during the race.

[Marti_EF3]

Is still RB using 2019 spec gearbox?? If it's true, I remember they had few issues and one DNF because of driveshafts. Could be related again with that? They solved it after few races

[etusch]

Is still RB using 2019 spec gearbox?? If it's true, I remember they had few issues and one DNF because of driveshafts. Could be related again with that? They solved it after few races

I think same is not mean everything is still same, especially parts which had issues. I am sure they solved that issues.

[Sieper]

Normally yes, but here, even during qualy (and FP!!) where T4 excursion were deleted it was allowed to use the kerbs. So no, in this case that was the limit and Max remained withing the limits for the most part, Lewis blatantly cut the track for 29 laps and stewards ignored it. Why? and Why did RBR spot it so late. It was a big factor in Lewis in the end winning the race. It leaves me feeling cheated.

Which part of the fact that the drivers were told in the briefing that they could use the outside of turn 4 without penalty during the race don't you understand? Hamilton did nothing wrong. Max could have done what Hamilton did but either chose not to or, more likely, didn't realise he could do it. Indeed, when told by Horner to drive there he said "it's illegal" which tells us that Max hadn't picked up what the race director had said. That's down to Max not paying attention and to Lewis paying attention.

It's these little things that can make a difference and the sort of thing that Max needs to remember. No doubt he will learn from it and not make the same mistake next time.

The annoying thing is not that the rule was applied the way it was, but that it was changed part way through the race. That was entirely unreasonable.

If it was allowed why was it worded like so "you must do everything you can to stay within the limits of the track". Missing it each and every lap (and they way he did it) was obvious he did not try everything he could. And why as soon as RBR instructs max to do the same is it suddenly being monitored that you indeed try to stay on track from that point onwards (like it should have been from the start). It seems you do agree wit me that it is strange, is it not? If it was totally fine then keep it being fine.

[Marti_EF3]

Proof enough that the overtake was legal??

[_cerber1]

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... k=R52qlAx2

Proof enough that the overtake was legal??

No! Because in a second Max will be out of the track. Hamilton hit the apex because he slowed down, Verstappen drove by.

[Marti_EF3]

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... k=R52qlAx2

Proof enough that the overtake was legal??

No! Because in a second Max will be out of the track. Hamilton hit the apex because he slowed down, Verstappen drove by.

https://f1-insider.com/wp-content/uploa ... 24x683.jpg

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

[dans79]

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... k=R52qlAx2

Proof enough that the overtake was legal??

No! Because in a second Max will be out of the track. Hamilton hit the apex because he slowed down, Verstappen drove by.

https://f1-insider.com/wp-content/uploa ... 24x683.jpg

He was in front before he went off track. So the off track time gain is the same Hamilton gained 29 times...

Again, none of that matters when it comes to the rules of passing!