Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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politburo
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Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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I saw an old video of Michael Schumacher squeezing Rubens Barrichello (i.e showing him the wall) at the 2012 Hungarian Grand Prix, I tend to be of the opinion it is not a bad move unless done very late when the driver is already side-by-side when you start squeezing. But why is it still so frowned upon and considered a dirty move to squeeze someone?. I find it entertaining and logical, you always want the inside line going into the corner so you squeeze the other drive into not taking such a line. Would love to know from anyone of the opposite opinion why they consider it a dirty move as that is usually the comment I see in the YouTube comments when someone is squeezed.
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dans79
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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politburo wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:46 am
I saw an old video of Michael Schumacher squeezing Rubens Barrichello (i.e showing him the wall) at the 2012 Hungarian Grand Prix,
Because this is how you have a horrendous accident. Not to mention it's against the rules to push a driver off track once they have an overlap.
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hollus
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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“You budge or you lose time” (there is run-off) is one thing.
“You budge or we crash” is a very different thing. People used to be killed when that happened in races, and it is still a very real possibility.
Also, it tends to be the squeezer that chooses when and how (and if) the crash happens, and the squezee that takes the worse part, generally a wall, of the crash.

Oh, yes, and then those pesky rules against pushing others off the track.
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politburo
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:01 am
politburo wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:46 am
I saw an old video of Michael Schumacher squeezing Rubens Barrichello (i.e showing him the wall) at the 2012 Hungarian Grand Prix,
Because this is how you have a horrendous accident. Not to mention it's against the rules to push a driver off track once they have an overlap.
I get that there is the risk of an accident, but then I don't think it's dirty, because Mmichael was moving towards the wall well before then anyways to defend, and Barrichello with drs had the choice to move either inside or outside right?

https://ibb.co/C5rZb2b

But then I've seen some videos of squeezing/blocking whilst the driver is behind and people still call it dirty. I don't think it is dirty unless the drive is already by your side when you start squeezing...I mean I think it shouldn't be seen as dirty for as long as if you move to the right to block the driver behind or squeeze them I don't see an issue as long you started doing in advance, basically you either predict the move or react quickly. Mick did this to Mazepin, he saw Mazepin move inside and then moved to squeeze him there actually went over the pit exit lane a bit. (F2 Bahrain 2020):

https://ibb.co/xDC5bmY

In fact Mick and Mazepin routinely used it last year, Yuki also used it a bit last year in F2. It makes the racing very exciting if done right. Don't see it a lot in F1 as I think drivers prioritise getting the next drs zone as it is more powerful especially in Bahrain so they tend to let drivers go past.
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dans79
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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politburo wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:24 am
I get that there is the risk of an accident, but then I don't think it's dirty, because Mmichael was moving towards the wall well before then anyways to defend, and Barrichello with drs had the choice to move either inside or outside right?
This is an overlap, and at this point Schumi can no longer continue to push the other driver off the track, as that is a violation of the rules.
Image

It's also against the rules to make more than one blocking move, or wait till the last moment to make your move. Basically it's against the rules to do anything that has the potential to cause an accident.
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hollus
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 am
...It's also against the rules to make more than one blocking move, or wait till the last moment to make your move. ...
Schumi did none of those in that instance. It was one move followed by a long straight line, and it was done well in advance. Still illegal in my opinion, due to forcing another driver out, but it requires a safety angle to make it illegal, as there was no crash.
It reminds me of football when a defender makes a killer sliding tackle with his metal clits cutting at knee height and the attacker jumps out of the way. If there was contact it would almost for sure lead to injury, but no contact > no foul. Yet, the referee is still well within his right to show a red card for dangerous play.
dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 am
...Basically it's against the rules to do anything that has the potential to cause an accident.
100% agreed.
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aMessageToCharlie
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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In my opinion it would be best for the sport if "you always have to leave the space!" would apply.

Squeezing is fine, as long as there is a minimum of space for the other car left within the track limits.

Same for the popular "pushing the outside driver off track because it's MY corner" move. I understand that there are limitations in grip if a car is approaching a turn in a cirtain angle, so you cant just reduce the radius mid turn, but I feel like in at least 50% of the cases this is not the problem.

Drivers just open up the steering/get on the power early to drive the outside car off the road all the time. If there were better rules of engagement, we might see some actual wheel to wheel fights instead of gimmick drs overtakes. But it's hard to police obviously as the drivers will always claim innocent.

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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:19 am
In my opinion it would be best for the sport if "you always have to leave the space!" would apply.

Squeezing is fine, as long as there is a minimum of space for the other car left within the track limits.

Same for the popular "pushing the outside driver off track because it's MY corner" move. I understand that there are limitations in grip if a car is approaching a turn in a cirtain angle, so you cant just reduce the radius mid turn, but I feel like in at least 50% of the cases this is not the problem.

Drivers just open up the steering/get on the power early to drive the outside car off the road all the time. If there were better rules of engagement, we might see some actual wheel to wheel fights instead of gimmick drs overtakes. But it's hard to police obviously as the drivers will always claim innocent.
And to add, we have seen the stewards are really not consistent with handing out penalties, so for two identical incidents in consecutive races, one driver will be punished and the other will get away with it.

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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 am
It's also against the rules to make more than one blocking move, or wait till the last moment to make your move. Basically it's against the rules to do anything that has the potential to cause an accident.
Is this forbidden (and since when)?

Max did that many times and I don't think he was ever punished for it.

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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 am
It's also against the rules to make more than one blocking move, or wait till the last moment to make your move. Basically it's against the rules to do anything that has the potential to cause an accident.
Is this forbidden (and since when)?

Max did that many times and I don't think he was ever punished for it.
I'd have to find it, but I know it's in there somewhere.
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Zynerji
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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I recall Lewis shoving Nico off like that in Spain a few times... Turn 4 maybe?

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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:57 pm
I recall Lewis shoving Nico off like that in Spain a few times... Turn 4 maybe?
I recall Nico pushing Lewis on to the grass approaching turn 4 in Spain in 2016. That didn't end well for anyone.
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bosyber
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:17 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:57 pm
I recall Lewis shoving Nico off like that in Spain a few times... Turn 4 maybe?
I recall Nico pushing Lewis on to the grass approaching turn 4 in Spain in 2016. That didn't end well for anyone.
Well, arguably, the points on offer there might have helped Hamilton (who was the one passing), so effectively, it not only helped Verstappen to his first win, it also might have helped Rosberg to get his WDC 8)

dans79
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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hollus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:01 am
dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 am
...It's also against the rules to make more than one blocking move, or wait till the last moment to make your move. ...
Schumi did none of those in that instance. It was one move followed by a long straight line, and it was done well in advance. Still illegal in my opinion, due to forcing another driver out, but it requires a safety angle to make it illegal, as there was no crash.
It reminds me of football when a defender makes a killer sliding tackle with his metal clits cutting at knee height and the attacker jumps out of the way. If there was contact it would almost for sure lead to injury, but no contact > no foul. Yet, the referee is still well within his right to show a red card for dangerous play.
I was referring to his following arguments and photos, about it being considered dirty even when the following driver is still behind.
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MKlaus
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Re: Why is "The Squeeze" move so frowned upon by fans?

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 am
politburo wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:24 am
I get that there is the risk of an accident, but then I don't think it's dirty, because Mmichael was moving towards the wall well before then anyways to defend, and Barrichello with drs had the choice to move either inside or outside right?
This is an overlap, and at this point Schumi can no longer continue to push the other driver off the track, as that is a violation of the rules.
https://i.ibb.co/LgT6TGK/1.png

It's also against the rules to make more than one blocking move, or wait till the last moment to make your move. Basically it's against the rules to do anything that has the potential to cause an accident.
the driver going for a move from behind, taking grass for the same, has a choice to back off, avoid accident and save his own life. yet, drivers keep attempting it and blame the driver ahead, which is very silly. in my opinion, area attached to white line should be gravel trap. these tarmac and grass run offs that allow drivers to attempt stupid moves and create these stupid arguments. it also avoids stewards being in stupid positions.
make f1 great again, remove tarmac and grass run off areas.