2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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MKlaus
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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if anyone is interested for a little fact, other than what is going on for multitude of pages of same stuff, it is intriguing to look at the long run sim in fp2 and actual race runs. either they were holding back massively (lower pu modes) in fp2 or just that, their setups were still not great or both. there was 4 degree different, which is not a lot.

fp2 times. track temps at race sim - 32c
Image

actual race (max and lewis). track temps at race - 28c
Image

bonjon1979
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Jesus, look at Hamilton’s consistency. The team told him around lap 30 he needed to do 1.34s. Metronomic

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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e30ernest wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:49 am
hollus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:46 am
Yep, if they had applied the criteria from the first half of the race for the whole race, no one would be complaining. And if they had applied the criteria from the second half of the race for the whole race, no one would be complaining.
Nah, I think if they didn't change the track limits they set for turn 4 from the start of the race to the end, it'll still be an issue because Max went out during an overtake. It would have been better if Turn 4 was always enforced, then no one would get confused about the differences between what happened during Max's pass and what everyone else was doing during their normal drive around turn 4.
It was silly they changed it mid race and I think we ALL agree on that, but the rules regarding that corner were the same for all drivers at all times, and were made clear to all the drivers. No-one was disadvantaged at any point of the race.

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:05 am
Jesus, look at Hamilton’s consistency. The team told him around lap 30 he needed to do 1.34s. Metronomic
4 laps in a row which were all 1:34.7. Insane consistency.
Felipe Baby!

e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:12 am
e30ernest wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:49 am
hollus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:46 am
Yep, if they had applied the criteria from the first half of the race for the whole race, no one would be complaining. And if they had applied the criteria from the second half of the race for the whole race, no one would be complaining.
Nah, I think if they didn't change the track limits they set for turn 4 from the start of the race to the end, it'll still be an issue because Max went out during an overtake. It would have been better if Turn 4 was always enforced, then no one would get confused about the differences between what happened during Max's pass and what everyone else was doing during their normal drive around turn 4.
It was silly they changed it mid race and I think we ALL agree on that, but the rules regarding that corner were the same for all drivers at all times, and were made clear to all the drivers. No-one was disadvantaged at any point of the race.
Yup. But it seems like people are all stuck on the notion that it was somehow unfair, and even more people can't understand (or accept) that the Turn 4 pass by Max was a whole different case to the normal lap excursions out of that corner's limits.

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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tangodjango wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:29 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:47 pm
I can't believe the amount of people that see it as Lewis cheating and Max being robbed. Even after Masi and multiple drivers confirmed what was said in the driver's briefing beforehand.
@NathanOlder you of all people should know why that is the case. All this while we were hearing the new "prince" is overwhelmingly superior especially from his pimps (Horner and Marko) that he was put in his place with a considerably faster car and a tyre advantage just showed that he is nothing more than a "pretender" yet. It is simply that, that is causing the meltdown.
Why is it so hard to just accept that there are people that see inconsistencies and shortcomings in the rules and want to see those fixed? Why does it always need to be transformed into a narrative of rivalry, implicitly or explicitly framing the 'other party' as irrational, semi-religious fanboys?
Last edited by DChemTech on Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

bosyber
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 am
Max addressed this specifically. He said his tires were going and on his past attempt, Lewis was slightly balked by a lapped car, this is why he had a run.

He said after he let Lewis by, the tires didn’t have enough in the tank to try again.

Does anyone read or watch post race interviews?
There was a time when I watched hardly any, because a lot of the questions were so overcooked. But, now I just don't always have the time (and then didn't have access to, for example, the Ziggo F1 tv where Verstappen tends to be a lot more open). So, thanks for quoting here, saving us the time and need to further speculate on that :)

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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e30ernest wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:32 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:12 am
e30ernest wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:49 am


Nah, I think if they didn't change the track limits they set for turn 4 from the start of the race to the end, it'll still be an issue because Max went out during an overtake. It would have been better if Turn 4 was always enforced, then no one would get confused about the differences between what happened during Max's pass and what everyone else was doing during their normal drive around turn 4.
It was silly they changed it mid race and I think we ALL agree on that, but the rules regarding that corner were the same for all drivers at all times, and were made clear to all the drivers. No-one was disadvantaged at any point of the race.
Yup. But it seems like people are all stuck on the notion that it was somehow unfair, and even more people can't understand (or accept) that the Turn 4 pass by Max was a whole different case to the normal lap excursions out of that corner's limits.
Totally agree! I guess it's hard for people to be objective about this stuff.

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Objectivity goes both ways ..
There is nothing wrong with the opinion that when an overtake while leaving track leads to a lasting advantage it should be considered illegal.
There is also nothing wrong with the opinion that a mulitude of off-track excursions lead to an overall lasting advantage in overall time and allround tire preservation.
Regardless of who is right and who is not (both are, and neither are), enforcing tracklimits should simple not be discussable; grass or gravel or changing these situations would solve that, and race control would not have to take any position on the matter.

I just enjoyed there were 56 rounds of calculated racing instead of 4/5 combined with 50+ laps of consolidated cruising ...
HuggaWugga !

cheeRS
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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langedweil wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:41 pm

I just enjoyed there were 56 rounds of calculated racing instead of 4/5 combined with 50+ laps of consolidated cruising ...

Me too! What a treat of a season opener. This will be one to watch over and over again throughout the years. Hoping the rest of the season brings at least a couple more like this.

Imagine if this was the season ender and title decider.. :o =D>

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nevill3
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Massi, the steward, has stated that the directions regarding turn 4 didn't change during the race, it was just perceived to have changed by everybody due to the radio message to Lewis advising him to curtail the excessive extension of turn 4 that he had started doing.

Mercedes obviously were aware that all drivers should not leave the track unnecessarily and were just making sure that Lewis didn't open himself up to a potential penalty by excessively abusing the track limits at turn 4 even though they were not being policed. The stewards did not issue a warning to Mercedes regarding Lewis, Mercedes were policing things themselves. =D>
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

MKlaus
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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nevill3 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Massi, the steward, has stated that the directions regarding turn 4 didn't change during the race, it was just perceived to have changed by everybody due to the radio message to Lewis advising him to curtail the excessive extension of turn 4 that he had started doing.

Mercedes obviously were aware that all drivers should not leave the track unnecessarily and were just making sure that Lewis didn't open himself up to a potential penalty by excessively abusing the track limits at turn 4 even though they were not being policed. The stewards did not issue a warning to Mercedes regarding Lewis, Mercedes were policing things themselves. =D>
masi's statement is going to end this endless debate now? race director and stewards were consistent in allowing excursions on t4 and issue no warning to anyone. lewis did it and so many other drivers. max didn't do it because he didn't pay attention in the drivers' briefing. it's just mercedes policing themselves and asking their driver to stop the excursions, leading people to jump to the conclusion that stewards changed their stance and issued warning, which is not true.
the only rule then remained was an overtake without making the corner clean, leading to lasting advantage, which requires the driver overtaking to relegate the position. that was the only rule applicable. fair enough.

some people here believe, before max went off, he was ahead of lewis. the problem is, he carried too much speed due to which he couldn't make the corner clean. it was that same extra speed that allowed him to get ahead of lewis, but forced him to go off track. so technically, to make the t4 clean, he should have taken slightly less speed and if he would have done that, he wouldn't have gotten ahead of lewis.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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Max overtook in turn 4, max ran outside track limits at turn 4. Quite simple really
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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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I truly do not understand your beef .. but I'll shove it under a sign of the times thing.
No matter what Masi says, 27.3 sets the boundaries .. policing or not, that's just the written sporting regulations. Anything else is just opinion; which is fine, but no more than that.
HuggaWugga !

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langedweil
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Re: 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 26 - 28

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:50 pm
Max overtook in turn 4, max ran outside track limits at turn 4. Quite simple really
Lewis ran out of track limits in turn 4 for 29 times. Quite simple really as well.

Sort of Mexican stand-off.
More important, did you enjoy 56 laps of tension?
I most certainly did .. not even being a fanboy of either one.
HuggaWugga !