Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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hollus
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Any plan we come up with has to deal with a problem all sports have: The imperfect Referee.
So maybe we should not expect perfection.
¡Puxa Esportin!

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hollus
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:32 am
hollus wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 am

So, for something more practical, F1 specific and that does not ruin other events:
https://cdn.realsport101.com/images/nca ... uto=format
https://cdn0-porsche.overtake.gg/storage/4000/4146.jpg

The problem for Bahrain is that Turn 4 of the GP track is also part of another track layout. Very difficult to put something physical in place on that corner without risking damage to the other track layout. Some other circuits have similar problems, of course. But not all do.
OK, paint in the ground? You have those kilometers and kilometers of white lines both sides in every track. And zebra crossings, finish lines, etc. I'd think a bit of paint in the ground would be OK?
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BrunoH
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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maybe they should put some very slippery oil kind of stuff material 1 meter wide only outside the white lines... i Can Guarantee you guys they will not go there anymore
Also, some very sticky stuff right after that for safety only or some very deep gravel, so they know if you go out you aint gonna be coming back in.!!!!
end of story

dans79
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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BrunoH wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:20 pm
Also, some very sticky stuff right after that for safety only or some very deep gravel, so they know if you go out you aint gonna be coming back in.!!!!
Even gravel is an imperfect solution, because if a car hits it at the wrong angle, it will dig in and you get this.


basically all the physical measures to prevent drivers going off track come with some nasty side effects under the right conditions.

for example sausage kerbs.
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Xwang
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Adding Paul Ricard most abrasive painting maybe is the most balanced solution. It does not create issues or risks to other competitions and competitors, avoid cars damages (except for tyre degradation) and it should be pretty economical to implement. The issue is that it could be not such a great penality for the pilot who runs over it especially in a qualification lap.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

rhelm15
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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The solutions put forward although good all have areas of exploration that can be used. The gravel or grass solution seems like a good idea until that gravel or dirt gets dragged onto the track impacting those behind or for laps to come. I think a single sensor mounted under tea tray area at the centreline of the car that used in conjunction with a sensor strip that runs with the white lines of the track. If this sensor passes the strip we have escalating penalties. But how that penalty is applied needs to change. Lets look to the Formula E series where the use a sensor area off line to access the boost. If we use this in a different way, similar to the exceeding track limits gates in place at tracks like Barcelona, Russia, and Canada and install penalty zones at all tracks. These penalty zones at all tracks that have a definite impact on laptime with the Sensor to clear the track limits penalty. Thinking of 1 or 2 second impact only. So running the outside of a corner for example (dusty, dirty, no grip and none ideal line). This zone only needs marks on the racing surface to define it. No physical objects to navigate.

Penalties would look something like.
1x Noted
2x Warning
3x-6x Penalty Zone Penalty
7x- Drive through or 30 seconds added to race if infraction happens on last lap.
8x- Black Flag.

Yes this seems like a lot of range of penalties but this allows for not having to review the penalties. Leaving the track for any reason should have consequences at the top of motorsport. If its to avoid contact, if it was a wall you would have avoided it. If its because of a mistake, if it was a wall you would have hit it. If it was gain a lasting advantage, you have 2 times before you loose your advantage.

This solution allows tracks to build facilities that meet f1 and motogp standards, without harming the outcome of 1 or the other like we have right now.

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jjn9128
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Xwang wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm
Adding Paul Ricard most abrasive painting maybe is the most balanced solution. It does not create issues or risks to other competitions and competitors, avoid cars damages (except for tyre degradation) and it should be pretty economical to implement. The issue is that it could be not such a great penality for the pilot who runs over it especially in a qualification lap.
That paint doesn't stop drivers going over the white lines though.
#aerogandalf
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Xwang
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:51 pm
Xwang wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm
Adding Paul Ricard most abrasive painting maybe is the most balanced solution. It does not create issues or risks to other competitions and competitors, avoid cars damages (except for tyre degradation) and it should be pretty economical to implement. The issue is that it could be not such a great penality for the pilot who runs over it especially in a qualification lap.
That paint doesn't stop drivers going over the white lines though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7iibUaKQw
I agree, but they should put the red one which (according to Italian Tv F1 commentator) is the tougher on tyres and not the blue one.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Xwang wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:18 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:51 pm
Xwang wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm
Adding Paul Ricard most abrasive painting maybe is the most balanced solution. It does not create issues or risks to other competitions and competitors, avoid cars damages (except for tyre degradation) and it should be pretty economical to implement. The issue is that it could be not such a great penality for the pilot who runs over it especially in a qualification lap.
That paint doesn't stop drivers going over the white lines though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7iibUaKQw
I agree, but they should put the red one which (according to Italian Tv F1 commentator) is the tougher on tyres and not the blue one.
I thought of this earlier in the thread, but thinking about it further, while there are some really good benefits, the con is that anyone forced wide by another driver or not by their own fault pays quite a hefty price then with ruined tyres.

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jjn9128
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:33 pm
Xwang wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:18 pm
I agree, but they should put the red one which (according to Italian Tv F1 commentator) is the tougher on tyres and not the blue one.
I thought of this earlier in the thread, but thinking about it further, while there are some really good benefits, the con is that anyone forced wide by another driver or not by their own fault pays quite a hefty price then with ruined tyres.
Just running over the paint wont ruin the tyres. The answer of course is to penalize drivers who squeeze others off the track (I know there's a thread about this).
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Shrieker
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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I see a lot of smart suggestions in this thread, but I think they are like over engineered for the problem they're trying to solve.

Maybe I should've posted a screenshot the first time round, instead of a wall of text:

Image

I'm gonna give T4 Bahrain since it's the most recent example. Put this fabric in there, glue it down properly, chuck a bucket of water on it before every session.

Rinse, repeat for every corner on the calendar that drivers wanna extend and gain an advantage. They'll be free to go there, but they will lose time if they do, by mistake or not.

It causes no problems whatsoever for motorcycle racing either.

Problem solved.
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dans79
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Shrieker wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:35 pm
I see a lot of smart suggestions in this thread, but I think they are like over engineered for the problem they're trying to solve.

Maybe I should've posted a screenshot the first time round, instead of a wall of text:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ped%29.jpg

I'm gonna give T4 Bahrain since it's the most recent example. Put this fabric in there, glue it down properly, chuck a bucket of water on it before every session.

Rinse, repeat for every corner on the calendar that drivers wanna extend and gain an advantage. They'll be free to go there, but they will lose time if they do, by mistake or not.

It causes no problems whatsoever for motorcycle racing either.

Problem solved.
as someone else mentioned, it's not that simple for turn 4 in Bahrain.

The exit of turn 4, is the entrance into the back section of the outer loop. Thus you have to completely get rid of the outer loop, because you will be hard pressed to finding something that will stick to the actual track surface as soon as one or two cars run over it. Not to mention it's Bahrain you'd need a house constantly feeding water to it, or it would be dry by like lap 10.

Image
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Shrieker
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Some other type of lubricant that won't vaporize easily can be applied. As for using the alternate layout, this is not something that would be hard to install/remove.
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PhillipM
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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Honestly, sprinklers, don't install anything else, just add sprinklers, sorted.

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Shrieker
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Re: Track Limits - No Track Limits - Hybrid Track Limits

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PhillipM wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:35 am
Honestly, sprinklers, don't install anything else, just add sprinklers, sorted.
You have to manage the flow of water with that :mrgreen: Just apply some used engine oil obtained from the teams to the patch, and you're golden :D
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk