2009 Testing - March (Jerez & Barcelona)

[kilcoo316]

Can anyone give me a bit more technical information on this? What is it for a wing to 'stall'?

I would define it as a region of stagnate flow existing somewhere along the suction surface.

(Obviously, I am not taking the zero-slip condition as stagnate flow - even though technically it is!)

[mattclinch]

This from the ITVF1 website..

"Itv.com/f1 sources indicate that the team is struggling with an aerodynamic problem on the MP4-24, most likely the rear wing stalling, having alternated between 2008 and 2009-spec rear wings at Jerez last week and redesigned the car’s floor."

Quite unlikely...

considering they all stall to one degree or another.


Their problems are a lot more fundamental than a moving separation point.

Can anyone give me a bit more technical information on this? What is it for a wing to 'stall'?

i believe it means that the when the wing reaches a certain angle of attack it ceases to create the high pressure/low pressure seperation which generates the downforce as the air flows over its surfaces, and instead simple 'splits' the flow of air flowing over it causing massive turbulence and little to no downforce.

[bonjon1979]

Can anyone give me a bit more technical information on this? What is it for a wing to 'stall'?

I would define it as a region of stagnate flow existing somewhere along the suction surface.

(Obviously, I am not taking the zero-slip condition as stagnate flow - even though technically it is!)

Riiiight. Hmm, could you explain again but pretend you're talking to someone a little bit stupid...

[bonjon1979]

i believe it means that the when the wing reaches a certain angle of attack it ceases to create the high pressure/low pressure seperation which generates the downforce as the air flows over its surfaces, and instead simple 'splits' the flow of air flowing over it causing massive turbulence and little to no downforce.[/quote]

Ah ha, this I understand. Good. Thank you very much!

[natef1]

i believe it means that the when the wing reaches a certain angle of attack it ceases to create the high pressure/low pressure seperation which generates the downforce as the air flows over its surfaces, and instead simple 'splits' the flow of air flowing over it causing massive turbulence and little to no downforce.

Ah ha, this I understand. Good. Thank you very much![/quote]

Yep, the way I think of it is, think of a big brick in a wind tunnel. Imagine how the air would behave, seeing as the brick has flat sides.

Now imagine an aerofoil, and think of how the air passes around it smoothly..

[bhall]

Why is Michael Schumacher there?

[kilcoo316]

Riiiight. Hmm, could you explain again but pretend you're talking to someone a little bit stupid...

Picture is worth a thousand words:




For the more interested I also recommend reading this - it feeds into how the teams actually designed the rear wings for reduced drag a few years ago by closing the slot gap between lower & upper plane.

http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~dommelen/resear ... rfoil.html

[Scotracer]

This from the ITVF1 website..

"Itv.com/f1 sources indicate that the team is struggling with an aerodynamic problem on the MP4-24, most likely the rear wing stalling, having alternated between 2008 and 2009-spec rear wings at Jerez last week and redesigned the car’s floor."

Quite unlikely...

considering they all stall to one degree or another.


Their problems are a lot more fundamental than a moving separation point.

Can anyone give me a bit more technical information on this? What is it for a wing to 'stall'?

Simply, stall is when the flow seperates from the surface, reducing lift to virtually zero.

[bonjon1979]

Excellent! I understand perfectly now, thank you all very much.

[ben_watkins]

Why is Michael Schumacher there?

That's called looking to see what the opposition is doing..

[sdimm]

wow, Brawn GP looks to be fast

[kilcoo316]

Simply, stall is when the flow seperates from the surface, reducing lift to virtually zero.

No, no - thats a common misconception.


Lift doesn't drop off too badly - but drag spikes.


Its that drag increase that cause planes to fall from the sky.

[RacingManiac]

I wonder how much can one read into the times that Brawn F1 is doing. I seem to remember a certain Prost team did quite well in preseason and doing quite poor once the season started. Not to say this is the case here, but test being a test, there are no rule to govern some of the more basic things on a race weekend, say minimum weight....And being as financially perculiar as they are, the more headline the better....

The car does look surprisingly complete, consider most of the employee probably worked with very little job security in the past few months it certainly is a nicely done car, at least from the looks of it...

[bonjon1979]

wow, Brawn GP looks to be fast

So fast that coral temporarily suspended betting on Button winning the WDC. They've restarted it now but have halved the odds. It seems there was flood of wagers when he put in the 1.19:1. I have to admit having a flutter at 80/1!

[Shaddock]

Aren't the wings meant to stall?

Shouldn't the rear wing/diffuser ideally stall at a 'set speed' above that of the fastest corner on that particular track.

The FIA measure wing/body work deflection on a static car. Blow hot air from the exhausts onto various parts at the rear of the car and they could be manufactured to become bendy, and either stall or drop into a low drag mode.