Mercedes W12

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
DarthPlagueisTheVise
DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Was Lewis running less rear wing than Valtteri today ?
Technical Noob

marcush
marcush
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Rake angle is a factor of rear vertical springrate (and low speed damping) vs
springrate , static rake angle is certainly different from dynamic figures ..
Static angles delta seems to be smaller
comparing RedBull and Merc.

balalev
balalev
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:55 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 4:38 pm
Was Lewis running less rear wing than Valtteri today ?
Yep, different configuration

Image

Image

DarthPlagueisTheVise
DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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balalev wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:43 pm
DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 4:38 pm
Was Lewis running less rear wing than Valtteri today ?
Yep, different configuration

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... N-01-1.jpg

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... N-38-3.jpg
Thanks for the pics.
Technical Noob

pursue_one's
pursue_one's
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Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:50 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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It's interesting.
Image

mkay
mkay
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Is BOT's rear wing higher downforce, but offers more DRS benefits (due to taller/wider flap)?

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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Higher downforce. No DRS benefit. The top speed dpesnt get higher but he will feel a bigger difference in speed when it opens up.

One of the advantages of being able to live with more rear tyre slip means a driver can take this low drag rear wing option. Sometimes it can back-fire though.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..
Online Stress Therapy. #77 is mediocre. W12 is the fastest car. Repeat x 1,000

marcush
marcush
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:30 am
Higher downforce. No DRS benefit. The top speed dpesnt get higher but he will feel a bigger difference in speed when it opens up.

One of the advantages of being able to live with more rear tyre slip means a driver can take this low drag rear wing option. Sometimes it can back-fire though.
your post is a bit misleading in my view
being able to live with more rear tyre slip
is not an issue for any driver .Actually a
clear and honest oversteer characteristic is quite easy to control , if you have enough opposite lock available.
A tyre has a certain amount of grip available ,which can be split up into longitudinal and lateral load bearing capacity . Braking and Throttle application reduce lateral grip capacity .
So yes , different driving approaches lead to different car feedbacks .
if you brake deep into the corners you will need extra front grip ,to retain lateral grip while decelerating , if you finish braking before turnin , you have all grip of the front tyre for cornering .
But you cannot have more than optimum slip angle for a given vertical load and tyre temp and expect more grip .Grip peaks at optimum slip angle ,period .Exceeding this , and you lose grip )road holding capacity.It goes without saying Lewis is not quicker by living with higher slip angles at the rear .

aral
aral
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Could you please try and stay on the actual topic....W12 itself, rather than delve into driving styles etc. These can be discussed on the team thread.

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Mr5in1
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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Hi I read somewhere else that the Merc had updated engine maps to improve driveability, can anyone confirm or add comment?

I think this might be an explanation for them being fast on the main straight at the weekend i.e. a good drive out of the last corner, and a contributive reason why Lewis was able to overtake Max early on (on top of Max's exit error)

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Mattchu
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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I know the rake subject gets done to death, and I`m sorry about the poor picture quality, but I found this quite interesting.
Pretty much all the way round the corner the 2 cars were pretty much identical on the angle.

Image

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F1NAC
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Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:35 pm
Location: CRO

Re: Mercedes W12

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Basically RB is more loaded on this photo ( front wing endplate proximity to the ground) merc is stiffer

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Mattchu
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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The suspension set up of the cars is different, but when the cars are actually travelling at speed I don`t think the rake angle is that much different [static to dynamic].
When the cars are static, the angle is more on the Red Bull, just watch the pass video [4th down] from the link below and pause -> start -> pause around the 17/18 second mark. The rake angle of both cars is very similar at all stages of the corner.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/31381 ... lton-trust

I`m just wondering if this is one of the reasons Mercedes seemed to have clawed back some performance and Aston Martin still seem to be floundering.

marcush
marcush
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Mattchu wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:22 pm
The suspension set up of the cars is different, but when the cars are actually travelling at speed I don`t think the rake angle is that much different [static to dynamic].
When the cars are static, the angle is more on the Red Bull, just watch the pass video [4th down] from the link below and pause -> start -> pause around the 17/18 second mark. The rake angle of both cars is very similar at all stages of the corner.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/31381 ... lton-trust

I`m just wondering if this is one of the reasons Mercedes seemed to have clawed back some performance and Aston Martin still seem to be floundering.
As posted before ,static rake does not tell you what happens dynamically .
oversimplified you could say , more rideheight allows for more bump travel and you can soften springrate.
This is of course not taking into account
spring compression by aero generated vertical load compressing the springs .

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Pyrone89
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Perhaps they increased the rake slightly and this solved their issues. Because it is light and day between Bahrain testing and the GP's