Potentially, going for a more geometric line will probably see less stress on the rear tyres as well which is where you would see bigger drop offs in terms of lap time.Dejaeger22 wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 08:14Everytime Hamilton is behind another car he changes his lines. He basically turns in much earlier into the corner than the car in front. At first I didn't understand why he was doing it, because if you have early apex, you compromise your exit. But I realised that by turning in early he avoids the dirty air of the car in front, because the dirty air also drifts wide when cornering. He comprises his exit slightly, but he doesn't loose so much time in the corner itself. Overall there is a net gain en he keeps his tires in shape.
For allthe years of watching F1 it has always been that more downforce for a given track and given apex speed means cooler tyres. They tye doesn't need as much slip angle to grip the road so less hsyteresis, less deformation, less heating. This was also evident in the years Mercedes were dominating the sport. They had much better tyre life than the other teams... Because they had so much more downforce they could take it easy through the corners. They had a weakness at hot tracks because they couldn't heat the full casing of the tyre enough because they had spoiled themselves with gentle set ups! They fixed the problem of course with the new wheels.RZS10 wrote: ↑04 May 2021, 22:22They believe that the setup whilst being more prone to sliding (which Lewis managed) didn't put as much stress via downforce into the tyres so they stayed cooler (also helped by driving down the straight with DRS lap after lap) so he had better tyre life whilst still being able to follow the cars in front of him ... i think that's the idea...
What's really interesting though is that the Mercedes (at least driven by Lewis) isn't absolutely terrible in traffic anymore.
Surely, if a car has higher downforce, it just goes through the corner at a higher speed - the higher speed been that at which the tyre at the same slip angle as it would be at a lower speed. The more downforce you have, the more grip, so the faster you go around a corner. The limit is still defined by the tyres.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 16:08For allthe years of watching F1 it has always been that more downforce for a given track and given apex speed means cooler tyres. They tye doesn't need as much slip angle to grip the road so less hsyteresis, less deformation, less heating. This was also evident in the years Mercedes were dominating the sport. They had much better tyre life than the other teams... Because they had so much more downforce they could take it easy through the corners. They had a weakness at hot tracks because they couldn't heat the full casing of the tyre enough because they had spoiled themselves with gentle set ups! They fixed the problem of course with the new wheels.RZS10 wrote: ↑04 May 2021, 22:22They believe that the setup whilst being more prone to sliding (which Lewis managed) didn't put as much stress via downforce into the tyres so they stayed cooler (also helped by driving down the straight with DRS lap after lap) so he had better tyre life whilst still being able to follow the cars in front of him ... i think that's the idea...
What's really interesting though is that the Mercedes (at least driven by Lewis) isn't absolutely terrible in traffic anymore.
Very strange analysis imo. If you slide more, you overheat the tire, you wear the tire out more and you go slower. There will be some benefits to run the lower downforce, but I don't think this is it. I'm guessing he wanted the good straight line speed, perhaps anticipating he would have to try and pass a redbull or his teammate, which he did.RZS10 wrote: ↑04 May 2021, 22:22They believe that the setup whilst being more prone to sliding (which Lewis managed) didn't put as much stress via downforce into the tyres so they stayed cooler (also helped by driving down the straight with DRS lap after lap) so he had better tyre life whilst still being able to follow the cars in front of him ... i think that's the idea...
What's really interesting though is that the Mercedes (at least driven by Lewis) isn't absolutely terrible in traffic anymore.
I've seen a few things repeated about Lewis over the years that might explain why he makes tires last longer.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 05:01More sensitve throttle control is my take on it. Or if not that it could be that his driving styles is more gentler on the corner exit, the place where rear tyres take a beating?
He and Verstappen have both pretty much said exactly what they do, Hamilton after this weekend and Verstappen a while back, maybe after that Austrian race.dans79 wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 05:09I've seen a few things repeated about Lewis over the years that might explain why he makes tires last longer.PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 05:01More sensitve throttle control is my take on it. Or if not that it could be that his driving styles is more gentler on the corner exit, the place where rear tyres take a beating?
1) he is very good at getting the car straight before putting the power down.
2) he's very smooth with how he applies the brake and gas pedal.
I’m not sure, but i get a feeling that Hamilton plays things more closely to his chest where such things would be revealed, i.e. FP1 and FP2. Perhaps one of the lessons he learned when he had Rosberg in the team. Or Bottas has the data, but just cant feel it as well as Hamilton.drunkf1fan wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 06:24The really shocking thing to me is how poorly Bottas has been able to do with all of Ham's data and frankly following Hamilton from behind in so many races that he can't go, wait I gain in corner 3/6/9 a bunch but my tires wear out earlier. There must be info in the data that shows he's pushing more in certain corners and that it's hurting him.
It seems that some drivers just have it and some don't. Here's what de la Rosa and others have said about it. Interesting to see Alonso mentioned as having this talent too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/extra/c1nx5 ... FyyFG2iSx2As McLaren’s test driver from 2007-9, De la Rosa witnessed Hamilton’s abilities closer than most. Having worked with both, he rates Hamilton and Alonso as the two best drivers he has ever seen first hand - including Schumacher.
Where they differentiate themselves from the rest, he says, is in the entry phase of a corner.
“Where they are special, Lewis and Fernando, is how much speed they can run into the apex and still have a decent exit speed,” he says. “It is very easy to say; it is very difficult to do.
“Most drivers, over one lap, when the rear tyres are at their peak grip, can do that. So if you look at [Hamilton’s current Mercedes team-mate Valtteri] Bottas, for example, over one lap many times he is matching Lewis.
“The problem comes when the rear tyres drop off. That’s when they are so much better than the rest. They still keep the speed going in.”
Lowe says an ability to control his car in this way not only “makes you go faster in the moment, but also allows you to set the car up to be nearer the limit, so it is inherently quicker”.
These skills also explain why Hamilton is often so much more effective in races than Bottas, when it comes to key techniques such as following another car closely, overtaking or keeping tyres in optimum condition.
“Some drivers cannot get that close to the car in front,” De la Rosa says. "But Lewis and Fernando, always, when they’re behind they’re nearly touching the gearbox.
“You can see they are following in a different manner, in an aggressive manner, in a way that is not comfortable at all for the car in front.
“You lose a lot of grip when you are following - especially with these modern F1 cars - but this type of driver knows how to compensate by balancing with speed and brakes.
“It doesn’t really matter if the car is understeering or oversteering, they will sort the balance out with their feeling. They don’t know why they are doing it. They just know it’s faster. And that’s all talent - pure, raw talent.”
I think you need this thread for discussions about this weekend's race / weather.