2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:58 am
On another note, 5 more engineers have left Merc for RB.
None of those are very impressive signings imo, the only one that looks to have a significant job currently at Mercedes is Omid Mostaghimi.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:07 am
mkay wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:58 am
On another note, 5 more engineers have left Merc for RB.
None of those are very impressive signings imo, the only one that looks to have a significant job currently at Mercedes is Omid Mostaghimi.
They will all have a head full of information etc., which will, in part, be useful.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:09 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:07 am
mkay wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:58 am
On another note, 5 more engineers have left Merc for RB.
None of those are very impressive signings imo, the only one that looks to have a significant job currently at Mercedes is Omid Mostaghimi.
They will all have a head full of information etc., which will, in part, be useful.
I'm not sure how it's going to be overly useful though, considering the power unit freeze date. I mean they're basically stuck with the engines they're currently running until 2025.
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MKlaus
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:07 am
mkay wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:58 am
On another note, 5 more engineers have left Merc for RB.
None of those are very impressive signings imo, the only one that looks to have a significant job currently at Mercedes is Omid Mostaghimi.
not impressive and yet mercedes kept them for so many years. makes perfect sense.

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214270
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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It’s interesting that these hirings all seem to be promotions rather than moving across for more money. I think that element is unusual, no?
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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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MKlaus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:20 am
not impressive and yet mercedes kept them for so many years. makes perfect sense.
I don't know why you think that's significant, the vast majority of most companies are made up of people who do their jobs and go home. They don't get fired simply because they're not exceptional.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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214270 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 am
It’s interesting that these hirings all seem to be promotions rather than moving across for more money. I think that element is unusual, no?
Is it though? You'd offer people promotions to get them to jump ship, no? Mercedes have said themselves because they've been so consistent and had so little turnover there in the past X years that it was difficult to give opportunities for promotion in house to a lot of good people. Anyone from that environment who is ambitious or wants a change might well be tempted to get in at the ground floor of a business that's going to grow over the next couple of years where they can develop themselves.

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214270
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:19 pm
214270 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 am
It’s interesting that these hirings all seem to be promotions rather than moving across for more money. I think that element is unusual, no?
Is it though? You'd offer people promotions to get them to jump ship, no? Mercedes have said themselves because they've been so consistent and had so little turnover there in the past X years that it was difficult to give opportunities for promotion in house to a lot of good people. Anyone from that environment who is ambitious or wants a change might well be tempted to get in at the ground floor of a business that's going to grow over the next couple of years where they can develop themselves.
Personally, I think a healthy dose of both is the right approach, you lean too far one way and you run the risk of talent not quite matching up with position. It is however still early in the hiring cycle so we’ll see.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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214270 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:01 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:19 pm
214270 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 am
It’s interesting that these hirings all seem to be promotions rather than moving across for more money. I think that element is unusual, no?
Is it though? You'd offer people promotions to get them to jump ship, no? Mercedes have said themselves because they've been so consistent and had so little turnover there in the past X years that it was difficult to give opportunities for promotion in house to a lot of good people. Anyone from that environment who is ambitious or wants a change might well be tempted to get in at the ground floor of a business that's going to grow over the next couple of years where they can develop themselves.
Personally, I think a healthy dose of both is the right approach, you lean too far one way and you run the risk of talent not quite matching up with position. It is however still early in the hiring cycle so we’ll see.
That's true. You can't put people in positions which over their heads!

MKlaus
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:40 am
MKlaus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:20 am
not impressive and yet mercedes kept them for so many years. makes perfect sense.
I don't know why you think that's significant, the vast majority of most companies are made up of people who do their jobs and go home. They don't get fired simply because they're not exceptional.
you may be right for large corporations where there are hundreds of thousands of people. mercedes hpp has 700 (technical and non technical) people spread across f1, fe and hybrid road car programs. in such a small organization, everyone's performance is closely assessed and every individual has to be worth their salt. especially the kind of challenges that hpp has gone through to stay ahead in the premiere motorsport. so anyone that belongs in that group, is valuable. as far i have read, mercedes do follow performance management of employees and the bell cuve (could be tailored) is followed and average performers are let go.
the individuals that red bull has signed, were there for many years. so they are not insignificant. i am sure red bull has interviewed them thoroughly before hiring. they are ambitious and want the best from the available pool.

dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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MKlaus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:55 pm
you may be right for large corporations where there are hundreds of thousands of people. mercedes hpp has 700 (technical and non technical) people spread across f1, fe and hybrid road car programs.
according to their website they are only a 500 person organization.
https://www.mercedes-amg-hpp.com/about-us/
A team of over 500 people are responsible for the complete design, manufacture and testing of Formula 1 Power Units for our works team MERCEDES AMG PETRONAS as well as for Racing Point and Williams.
MKlaus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:55 pm
in such a small organization, everyone's performance is closely assessed and every individual has to be worth their salt. especially the kind of challenges that hpp has gone through to stay ahead in the premiere motorsport. so anyone that belongs in that group, is valuable. as far i have read, mercedes do follow performance management of employees and the bell cuve (could be tailored) is followed and average performers are let go.
In my career I've worked at two different companies in the 500 to 700 employee range. Bothe are in highly competitive industries with a small number of fierce competitors. Both do bell curve distributions when it comes to performance reviews.

However I have to tell you neither fired (I've been a manager) average employees. Only bottom of the barrel employees were let go, and even then they were made aware of their shortcomings and given a chance to improve. From everything I know of HHP, they are a carrot organization, not a whip one. Whip organizations do not lead to good work environments for creative minds.

MKlaus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:55 pm
the individuals that red bull has signed, were there for many years. so they are not insignificant. i am sure red bull has interviewed them thoroughly before hiring. they are ambitious and want the best from the available pool.
I'm going to have to disagree here. Take Anton Mayo for example (linkedin) He has worked at HPP for 4 years and 1 month over 2 stints. his current stint is/was only 3 months long. He is currently listed as a mechanical engineer, and his highest rank was team leader of mechanical engineers, so probably oversaw 3 to 6 other mechanical engineers. I don't want to sound harsh or disparaging, but in my opinion this is not the resume/cv of a "top-class players" as Marko was claiming a little while ago. None the less according to the motorsport.com article he is now going to be "head of power unit design ICE".


IMO, the announcements from Red Bull, are more about stirring up fans and the press, than they are announcements of a significant coup.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Fighting words from Bottas today!

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/botta ... n/6503453/
“I know that I am not going to be replaced in the middle of the season,” Bottas said.

“As a team we do not do that. I have a contract for this year, and I think there is only one team that does that kind of thing in F1 and we are not that.

“So no pressure from my side, as I know how things are.

“There is always bullshit around but that is part of the sport.”
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I feel RedBull created that rumour to destablize Valterri and by extension Lewis.
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tangodjango
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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MKlaus wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:20 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 11:07 am
mkay wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:58 am
On another note, 5 more engineers have left Merc for RB.
None of those are very impressive signings imo, the only one that looks to have a significant job currently at Mercedes is Omid Mostaghimi.
not impressive and yet mercedes kept them for so many years. makes perfect sense.
It seems a pretty significant scoop. Someone like mudflap could tell us better the implications, however he closed his account a while back.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Despite some members of the pitlane and press trying to sensationalize it, I think Max gave the most level headed opinion about the moves.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/verst ... l/6503612/
Verstappen said he found the movements “interesting”, but that it was “quite normal” for staff to look for fresh challenges after being with one team for such a long time.

“When a team has been so dominant for such a long time, you will try to get those kinds of people,” Verstappen said.

“But also I think it's an interesting new project to be part of, from our side.

“When people are in the same place for a long time, I think sometimes they want to seek new challenges.

“I think that's understandable.”
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