Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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humble sabot wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 3:05 am
So, 10-12hr drive people, do you really do that in one day?
Last time I did 12 hours in one day we stopped at the 2/3 mark and found a proper sit down restaurant for a full multi course meal, taking a two hour break before hitting the last 300km.
Yep, but we do stop for lunch roughly half way, and again for dinner at the other end.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Here's a link to a new 9 passenger/2 crew electric commuter aircraft:

https://www.eviation.co/aircraft/#Alice
The project was presented in 2019 Paris Airshow, and it´s been under develpment since then. I found it quite interesting as current bateries are heavy and I didn´t think a full electric passenger aircraft was doable with current battery technology, but here it is.

J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Seemingly the pamphlet payload claim of 1134 kg max would indicate smallish people in a full cabin,
(not a bunch of big football players) &/or a modest luggage load.
1134kg / 11 passengers equals 123kg/passenger with luggage. Or a 100kg person with 23kg luggage including crew who will obviously not carry so much luggage. That´s what you call smallish people JAW? :o


J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Glossy advert, but oddly enough - no flying is shown
Maybe it´s because it didn´t fly yet :P

They´ve been testing the EPU (Electric Propulsion Unit) and now it´s ready to be fitted into Alice. Here´s a quote from this recent article
The magniX delivery is one of the key milestones in getting emission free, low-cost, all-electric aviation off the ground with the first flight of Alice. After many successful flights and tests of the magniX EPUs, we’re confident the system will propel us to bringing Alice to market and delivering a sustainable, scalable mobility solution that will revolutionize passenger and cargo flights.

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 10:49 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Here's a link to a new 9 passenger/2 crew electric commuter aircraft:

https://www.eviation.co/aircraft/#Alice
The project was presented in 2019 Paris Airshow, and it´s been under develpment since then. I found it quite interesting as current bateries are heavy and I didn´t think a full electric passenger aircraft was doable with current battery technology, but here it is.

J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Seemingly the pamphlet payload claim of 1134 kg max would indicate smallish people in a full cabin,
(not a bunch of big football players) &/or a modest luggage load.
1134kg / 11 passengers equals 123kg/passenger with luggage. Or a 100kg person with 23kg luggage including crew who will obviously not carry so much luggage. That´s what you call smallish people JAW? :o


J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Glossy advert, but oddly enough - no flying is shown
Maybe it´s because it didn´t fly yet :P

They´ve been testing the EPU (Electric Propulsion Unit) and now it´s ready to be fitted into Alice. Here´s a quote from this recent article
The magniX delivery is one of the key milestones in getting emission free, low-cost, all-electric aviation off the ground with the first flight of Alice. After many successful flights and tests of the magniX EPUs, we’re confident the system will propel us to bringing Alice to market and delivering a sustainable, scalable mobility solution that will revolutionize passenger and cargo flights.
So, still no 1st flight then, yet?

Not even with a single-engine test machine?
Seems perhaps a tad risky to attempt to fly both novel airframe & power-plant, all at once...

What about the 'turnaround' (recharge) time between flights, no comments to offer about that?

& Andres, your calculations appear to be somewhat awry, given that 11 people of 100kg
will have a mean luggage allowance of ~3kg each, if max payload is not to be exceeded.

Image

The chart above relates to the speedy, if 'smallish' athletic backs*, forwards weigh another 15+kg...

*See 'cat-quick' fullback Christian Cullen show how its done with these ah, electrifying efforts:

"I believe in the Workers Revolution & I believe in the Final Solution,
I believe in the Shape of Things to Come, & I believe I'm not the only one..."
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RZS10
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Is safety equipment, food, drinks etc included in the "dry" weight or is it counted towards the payload?
Not a huge difference but it all adds up and given that the average weight in some countries is getting dangerously close to 100kg :lol:
But this thing will most likely end up being used as a (very) short range private jet anyways like most of the small aircraft which sometimes even get called "business jets" so 4 people including crew, a laptop, a few bottles of booze and some coke.
Still a neat idea though.

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 12:56 pm
Is safety equipment, food, drinks etc included in the "dry" weight or is it counted towards the payload?
Not a huge difference but it all adds up and given that the average weight in some countries is getting dangerously close to 100kg :lol:
But this thing will most likely end up being used as a (very) short range private jet anyways like most of the small aircraft which sometimes even get called "business jets" so 4 people including crew, a laptop, a few bottles of booze and some coke.
Still a neat idea though.
"Coke"?
Do you mean De Lorean quantities of the 'dehydrated' nose-candy, or brown sugar-water mixer stuff?

But yeah, those 'smallish' All Black backs likely wont even be able to carry their playing kit aboard...

Dunno if a ~400 km/h cruise speed qualifies as 'jet' performance, aren't trains 'bout that fast nowadays?
"I believe in the Workers Revolution & I believe in the Final Solution,
I believe in the Shape of Things to Come, & I believe I'm not the only one..."
: Pete Shelley (Buzzcocks).

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 12:56 pm
Is safety equipment, food, drinks etc included in the "dry" weight or is it counted towards the payload?
Not a huge difference but it all adds up and given that the average weight in some countries is getting dangerously close to 100kg :lol:
But this thing will most likely end up being used as a (very) short range private jet anyways like most of the small aircraft which sometimes even get called "business jets" so 4 people including crew, a laptop, a few bottles of booze and some coke.
Still a neat idea though.
Other than being noisier, something like a medium helicopter would be just as useful with similar speed and range and with higher payload. And can be refuelled quickly. And can land anywhere.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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FWIW the standard male passenger weight that a lot of airlines use is 77 kg, and that includes 4 kg of carry-on baggage. I thought that in a lot of places I operated the 747 out of, that weight was rather optimistic.

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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I'm around 100kg (a bit over at the moment :oops: ) and I'm not a huge bloke these days. At my "fighting weight", I'd still be getting on for 90kg. And there are plenty of women around these days who would struggle to be described as anything other than "erm, carrying a bit of timber". The west is getting fatter by the day. :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 12:49 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 10:49 am
J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Here's a link to a new 9 passenger/2 crew electric commuter aircraft:

https://www.eviation.co/aircraft/#Alice
The project was presented in 2019 Paris Airshow, and it´s been under develpment since then. I found it quite interesting as current bateries are heavy and I didn´t think a full electric passenger aircraft was doable with current battery technology, but here it is.

J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Seemingly the pamphlet payload claim of 1134 kg max would indicate smallish people in a full cabin,
(not a bunch of big football players) &/or a modest luggage load.
1134kg / 11 passengers equals 123kg/passenger with luggage. Or a 100kg person with 23kg luggage including crew who will obviously not carry so much luggage. That´s what you call smallish people JAW? :o


J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 2:57 am
Glossy advert, but oddly enough - no flying is shown
Maybe it´s because it didn´t fly yet :P

They´ve been testing the EPU (Electric Propulsion Unit) and now it´s ready to be fitted into Alice. Here´s a quote from this recent article
The magniX delivery is one of the key milestones in getting emission free, low-cost, all-electric aviation off the ground with the first flight of Alice. After many successful flights and tests of the magniX EPUs, we’re confident the system will propel us to bringing Alice to market and delivering a sustainable, scalable mobility solution that will revolutionize passenger and cargo flights.
So, still no 1st flight then, yet?

Not even with a single-engine test machine?
Seems perhaps a tad risky to attempt to fly both novel airframe & power-plant, all at once...
Did you bother to read my post before replying???
The magniX delivery is one of the key milestones in getting emission free, low-cost, all-electric aviation off the ground with the first flight of Alice. After many successful flights and tests of the magniX EPUs, we’re confident the system will propel us to bringing Alice to market and delivering a sustainable, scalable mobility solution that will revolutionize passenger and cargo flights.
J.A.W. wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 12:49 pm

& Andres, your calculations appear to be somewhat awry, given that 11 people of 100kg
will have a mean luggage allowance of ~3kg each, if max payload is not to be exceeded.
Right, but average people weight is 70kg, not your absurd example with over 100kg people

Only in North America people get close to 100kg but not even that, the average is 80kg, while global average weight is around 70kg, so north american average still can carry 23kg of luggage, while the world average can carry 33kg of luggage.

You americans have a serious problem with obesity (not my opinion, it´s the opinion of any doctor you ask), but even in Noth America using over 100kg people as an example is absurd.

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 6:50 am

Only in North America people get close to 100kg but not even that, the average is 80kg, while global average weight is around 70kg, so north american average still can carry 23kg of luggage, while the world average can carry 33kg of luggage.

You americans have a serious problem with obesity (not my opinion, it´s the opinion of any doctor you ask), but even in Noth America using over 100kg people as an example is absurd.
The average adult male in Spain is apparently 82.4kg.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2016/8341487/
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 9:27 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 6:50 am

Only in North America people get close to 100kg but not even that, the average is 80kg, while global average weight is around 70kg, so north american average still can carry 23kg of luggage, while the world average can carry 33kg of luggage.

You americans have a serious problem with obesity (not my opinion, it´s the opinion of any doctor you ask), but even in Noth America using over 100kg people as an example is absurd.
The average adult male in Spain is apparently 82.4kg.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2016/8341487/
Maybe (did you read the exclusion criteria? ie that figure is not the real male average as ill people and those following a diet are not included), but even so female average is 66 so total average is around 74kg

Anycase the point was 103kg per passenger with luggage is more than enough, similar if not higher than traditional airliners

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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 10:23 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 9:27 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 6:50 am

Only in North America people get close to 100kg but not even that, the average is 80kg, while global average weight is around 70kg, so north american average still can carry 23kg of luggage, while the world average can carry 33kg of luggage.

You americans have a serious problem with obesity (not my opinion, it´s the opinion of any doctor you ask), but even in Noth America using over 100kg people as an example is absurd.
The average adult male in Spain is apparently 82.4kg.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2016/8341487/
Maybe (did you read the exclusion criteria? ie that figure is not the real male average as ill people and those following a diet are not included), but even so female average is 66 so total average is around 74kg

Anycase the point was 103kg per passenger with luggage is more than enough, similar if not higher than traditional airliners
Of course there are exclusions etc., but the point is that European countries are catching the US in the obesity race, sadly.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Don't forget not all passengers are adults, and not all turn up
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Don't forget not all passengers are adults, and not all turn up
True, although on a business "jet" it's mostly going to be adults most of the time.

I like the idea of it. I do wonder if it'll find many companies taking it on for routes they cover. 400nm isn't a huge range and within existing helicopter coverage.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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subcritical71
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Don't forget not all passengers are adults, and not all turn up
Planes, especially smaller ones, tend to have a balance between fuel on board and passenger count. The plus I see here is that useable weight and passenger weight are going to be basically the same as fuel on board doesn't factor in anymore. I would be more concerned about the range. Also, the takeoff performance doesn't seem to be that great either, I wonder what the climb performance will be like(?)