2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 04 - 06

[jjn9128]

Masi should have finished the race under the safety car. Pathetic handling of the situation, it's clear Masi didn't have any idea what to do when you heard the Red Bull team radioing him. The FIA needs to replace him pronto.

Another mickey mouse race from the FIA circus

Tbh it's the first time I think Masi's got it right! He's been mostly useless.

He did not get anything right. There was not even a safety car immediately after the crash. What the hell is he doing if a team needs to tell him what to do?

There are a lot of discussions and processes to go through for the race director - e.g. check the force transducer from the car to ascertain driver condition, get info from track marshals, get the safety car on standby, talk to the medical car. The teams talking to him probably makes that process harder/take longer. Max running across the track probably had them fuming too.

[TNTHead]

Can someone shed more light on the type of tyre failure we saw to day. Probably still speculating but I am wondering whether it was a high speed/ centrifugal force failure, or something like debris/tyre thread disruption. Max was a bit further on the straight than Stroll, so it could be unrelated incidents (or Stroll had a high speed failure and Max run over left over debris of Strolls cars). Still wondering.

[Jolle]

Can someone shed more light on the type of tyre failure we saw to day. Probably still speculating but I am wondering whether it was a high speed/ centrifugal force failure, or something like debris/tyre thread disruption. Max was a bit further on the straight than Stroll, so it could be unrelated incidents (or Stroll had a high speed failure and Max run over left over debris of Strolls cars). Still wondering.

With the high downforce and high speed you get that the tire will wear where the sidewall and running area meet. When this goes, on the corner, the tire deflates instantly, without waring. Same as Sainz, Bottas and Hamilton had in Silverstone last year. The remedy is inflating the tire so much that it will still “balloon” under full load.

That it didn’t happen at exactly the same spot as Stroll doesn’t mean anything, but both were putting extreme loads in the tires (as did everyone)

[nzjrs]

Didn't Pirelli increase the rear pressure before Q this weekend?

Not saying it's causative.

[jknights]

Pirelli have faced this stuff before. They will duck and dive, and bluff away and everyone will puff, but until there is an alternative tyre supplier then it means nothing.
The alternative is to make the carcase stronger so the tyre can run without its tread and not deflate unless cut by a major shard. This treadless carcase would have near zero grip so would increase safety if people run it too long. Alternative solution probably also exist.
It is possible, anything is possible, if you have the money and the desire!

[Sieper]

Pirelli have faced this stuff before. They will duck and dive, and bluff away and everyone will puff, but until there is an alternative tyre supplier then it means nothing.
The alternative is to make the carcase stronger so the tyre can run without its tread and not deflate unless cut by a major shard. This treadless carcase would have near zero grip so would increase safety if people run it too long. Alternative solution probably also exist.
It is possible, anything is possible, if you have the money and the desire!

But it wasn’t even anywhere near that. Pirelli recommended a Red - White stint as the fastest option here today.

Oh yeah. I have to say something here. Last year in Silverstone I was sure it was tyrewear (as that is a much more abrasive surface) but we now have seen this same happen so often that it somehow must be a weak point in the tire, I think? So I now think I might have been wrong There. Let’s wait what Pirelli finds out. And then discuss what we think of that conclusion.

[Jolle]

Didn't Pirelli increase the rear pressure before Q this weekend?

Not saying it's causative.

They did.

But don’t forget, this is racing, which takes place on the edge.
Last year after the first race in silverstone with similar problems on the fronts, they dramatically increased the pressures for the second race which resulted in everybody racing on ballooned tires.

This is partly pushing the limits with less educated guesswork with limited actual race and test data (no race last year and an hour less FP)

[Edax]

Can someone shed more light on the type of tyre failure we saw to day. Probably still speculating but I am wondering whether it was a high speed/ centrifugal force failure, or something like debris/tyre thread disruption. Max was a bit further on the straight than Stroll, so it could be unrelated incidents (or Stroll had a high speed failure and Max run over left over debris of Strolls cars). Still wondering.

My guess would be that they have some local overheating in the construction. If the plies in the tire start moving around it generates a lot of heat. If I’m not mistaken that was the cause earlier with the metal belts. Perhaps it is now similar but on a different location.

I would expect to see strands of fibers anywhere if it was caused by a penetration which is more or less random.

For the tire to come apart so cleanly more points to a weak spot in the construction.

[El Scorchio]

I think the "Peak" Hamilton epoch is over. Another mistake, and quite a desperate one. He could have simply brought the car home in second for 15 relatively safe points. Just goes to show what pressure can do to anyone.

Bottas really needs to go though.

What a huge mistake...... 2nd place gives out 18pts

There was a mistake but I don't think it was desperate. Hamilton had a really good start and was ahead and inside of Checo before the braking zone. If his brakes worked correctly and if he got the braking point correctly I think he would lead the race into turn 2.

I completely agree actually. If he hadn’t have accidentally flipped that switch then the narrative would be quite different about what a brilliant and brave move it was into turn 1 to take the lead, because he got a lightning start. It must actually be more painful to swallow that it was a freak happenstance than actually screwing up the braking. (Just as painful as for Verstappen with how his race ended.)

When I watched it again, it looks quite like a brake failure or other mechanical issue rather than a normal driver error lock up, and let’s face it, it would be extremely un-Hamilton like thing to do, especially under basically no pressure since Verstappen was already out. To be honest it’s probably a good thing he was past Perez at that point or he might have taken them both out.

[langedweil]

and who knows...maybe if race was not red flagged perez engine wouldve let go and they wouldve went to zero

But maybe in that same scenario Ham and Vettel would have been hit by a meteor .. we will we just not know I guess

[zeph]

In a weird way I feel this was a bit of poetic justice for Perez. I felt his slow pit stop was somehow suspect, as if to ensure he wouldn’t end up ahead of Verstappen. But the racing gods weren’t having that...

[langedweil]

Your comment doesn't make any sense to me. I wasn't making any suggestion or accusation against Red Bull if that's what you are suggesting? My point was it was clear race control had very little control over the situation at that point in time, as evidence by that radio exchange.

Look, there was a car in shambles on the 315+ kph start/finish straight. It's rather usual to red flag in such a case, just to clean up and remove debris to avoid a likewise crash in the laps following. Fact that there were only 3 laps left does not change anything on that.

The warning RB gave immediately (really immediately) to Masi We had zero warning about that failure was an extremely responsible one, and went way beyond team-interests. It was additional and undoubtfully very helpful information to the stewards, information they could not possibly have known by then (within 30 secs after the crash).

If the above doesn't make any sense to you as well, then only God knows what will ...

[e30ernest]

Your comment doesn't make any sense to me. I wasn't making any suggestion or accusation against Red Bull if that's what you are suggesting? My point was it was clear race control had very little control over the situation at that point in time, as evidence by that radio exchange.

Look, there was a car in shambles on the 315+ kph start/finish straight. It's rather usual to red flag in such a case, just to clean up and remove debris to avoid a likewise crash in the laps following. Fact that there were only 3 laps left does not change anything on that.

The warning RB gave immediately (really immediately) to Masi We had zero warning about that failure was an extremely responsible one, and went way beyond team-interests. It was additional and undoubtfully very helpful information to the stewards, information they could not possibly have known by then (within 30 secs after the crash).

If the above doesn't make any sense to you as well, then only God knows what will ...

So at the risk of being heavily downvoted on this one... I'd like to play the devil's advocate here.... With hindsight on how close Perez' car was close to a DNF, what if RB's message to Race Control was more aimed at saving Perez that it was for saving tires?

I do lean towards the tire angle though. They probably wanted to ensure Perez' tire doesn't fail too.

I wonder if Pirelli's F1 issues will come back to bite them in their sales. I haven't been using Pirelli's in my cars too because of my annoyance over them in F1 (replaced them with Bridgestone or Michelin).

[ispano6]

your bias is clearly obvious. the front wing was changed because the nose cone was damaged. looking at the dent it couldve been a rock or debris thrown at it. NOT A MISTAKE. if it was ham wouldve dnfed.
youre naive to think that merc was the only car that made changes. EVERYONE did. and perez was lucky to even cross the line. had it been a SC only his engine wouldnt have been able to cool down and may have popped on lap 50/51.

When did I say Mercedes was the only team to make changes? Never. Don't be one of those people who put words in other people's mouth.

Hamiliton's front wing had clear damage, under the rules teams can change parts like for like on safety grounds under red flag conditions. I'm enjoying the battle between Hamilton and Verstappen, whoever wins the title will have earned it. Lewis will likely be berating himself for making an error that could cost him the title in the end. Max wasn't robbed of anything. He was just unlucky that his tyre went, it's not cost him the championship lead. Lance Stroll did a good job to keep his car out of the way after his tyre blow out. I'm a bit concerned that if debris cutting the tyre was the cause that they'd give way like that without any warning signs.

I'm looking forward to the sprint races, we'll see if shaking the grid up makes a difference to the main race.

Yeah, so what? Everyone knows this rule about red flags. Lewis had a perfectly good car to win the race and he blew it with flicking on his brake magic with Perez's move toward him. That was a pressure induced MISTAKE. Call it accident or whatever you want, but the fact is his own actions caused him to turn off his normal brakes and he couldn't stop the car. He could have potentially taken out Perez as well but Perez managed somehow to avoid Lewis streaking across in front of him!

Max wasn't robbed of anything? A win perhaps? Max was in the lead by a comfortable margin and sure to win. To add insult to injury, if it was debris who's debris was it? Track wasn't cleaned properly? Failure on the part of the stewards to not red flag the race after Strolls crash and do a clean sweep of the circuit? Max deserved to win and it was taken away from him. Obviously a lot of people here aren't going to see this way and think that it's fair because Lewis didn't score any points. The circumstances in which both didn't score points are COMPLETELY different.

[PlatinumZealot]

In a weird way I feel this was a bit of poetic justice for Perez. I felt his slow pit stop was somehow suspect, as if to ensure he wouldn’t end up ahead of Verstappen. But the racing gods weren’t having that...

I thought I was the only one that thought that gun was inserted a bit tardily. Hmm.