2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 04 - 06

[Sieper]

Gasly was passed him already. Let’s put this to bed with some images. And I agree they should be more careful as that Williams thing was a terrible shame.

[maxxer]

Merc wasnt showing pace in all the sessions so the mid teams where also focussing on them , maybe Merc strategy didnt think of that and didnt calculate in Gasly copying Hamilton

[Stu]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Wow! That is an extra layer of tinfoil right there (are you deliberately looking for conspiracy theories?), a few races ago GR was “a Mercedes driver, and should have behaved as such”, in the same race later LH made a miraculous recovery, easily overtaking several Mercedes-engined runners (Imola). That also had conspiracy written all over it (the quote is Toto, I thought that GR drove for Williams and was racing for position???). Another mad-arsed conspiracy there for you.


If you step back from the mirror you get a much better view of everything that is happening.

[dans79]

Gasly was passed him already.

That was this issue, Mercedes had to hold Lewis to ensure they didn't release him right into Gasly's path.

This screen grab is maybe 0.25 to 0.5 seconds after they drop the jacks (it's hard to get the exact instance of the drop because unlike on youtube you can't play back at 1/4th speed).

The car you can just see between the rear jack man and the guys on the right rear is Gasly. If they released Lewis as soon as they dropped the jacks, Gasly is either going to have to jack the brakes or run into Lewis. Either way it would have been an unsafe release so they had to hold Lewis till Gasly was past.

[Stu]

Gasly was passed him already.

That was this issue, Mercedes had to hold Lewis to ensure they didn't release him right into Gasly's path.

This screen grab is maybe 0.25 to 0.5 seconds after they drop the jacks (it's hard to get the exact instance of the drop because unlike on youtube you can't play back at 1/4th speed).

The car you can just see between the rear jack man and the guys on the right rear is Gasly. If they released Lewis as soon as they dropped the jacks, Gasly is either going to have to jack the brakes or run into Lewis. Either way it would have been an unsafe release so they had to hold Lewis till Gasly was past.


https://i.ibb.co/G3pxdY2/pit.jpg

Exactly!

[dans79]

Also keep in mind they need to ensure he is truly past. If they release Lewis, and Lewis runs into the side of Gasly because he can't see him (and he can't with the pit crew and the distances between them), that would also be an unsafe release!

[PlatinumZealot]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Uh hold up. Mercedes has customer teams in Aston Martin(Toto owns shares), McLaren and Williams to do exactly the same. Sure, they aren't sister teams, but they could all "get in the way" of Red Bull's cars equally. Remember Williams nearly taking out Verstappen in the pitlane in Brazil? Hamilton immensely benefited from a red flag between Bottas and Russell. If Mercedes doesn't want to get held up in the pitlane they should pit last after all other cars have.

Can't see how Williams and McLaren getting invovled in that thing for Mercedes! They have their own agendas.

I am saying that teams exploit the unsafe release rule to hinder or delay a leading rival from leaving their pitbox. You can do this if your rival's garage is closer to the pit entry than yours and your number 2 driver is behind them by about three to four seconds following into the pits.

It's normally done with the number 2 driver in the team, but RedBull has essentially three number 2 drivers.
Williams and Mclaren couldn't care less to compromise their races to help Mercedes. Alfa Tauri will do it and has done it a few times for Redbull though team though. Again, an unspoken tactic but something I have seen many times.

[PlatinumZealot]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Wow! That is an extra layer of tinfoil right there (are you deliberately looking for conspiracy theories?), a few races ago GR was “a Mercedes driver, and should have behaved as such”, in the same race later LH made a miraculous recovery, easily overtaking several Mercedes-engined runners (Imola). That also had conspiracy written all over it (the quote is Toto, I thought that GR drove for Williams and was racing for position???). Another mad-arsed conspiracy there for you.


If you step back from the mirror you get a much better view of everything that is happening.

Shake my darned head... sigh.. Everything is tin foil hat this or that. New to the sport?

[DChemTech]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Uh hold up. Mercedes has customer teams in Aston Martin(Toto owns shares), McLaren and Williams to do exactly the same. Sure, they aren't sister teams, but they could all "get in the way" of Red Bull's cars equally. Remember Williams nearly taking out Verstappen in the pitlane in Brazil? Hamilton immensely benefited from a red flag between Bottas and Russell. If Mercedes doesn't want to get held up in the pitlane they should pit last after all other cars have.

Can't see how Williams and McLaren getting invovled in that thing for Mercedes! They have their own agendas.

I am saying that teams exploit the unsafe release rule to hinder or delay a leading rival from leaving their pitbox. You can do this if your rival's garage is closer to the pit entry than yours and your number 2 driver is behind them by about three to four seconds following into the pits.

It's normally done with the number 2 driver in the team, but RedBull has essentially three number 2 drivers.
Williams and Mclaren couldn't care less to compromise their races to help Mercedes. Alfa Tauri will do it and has done it a few times for Redbull though team though. Again, an unspoken tactic but something I have seen many times.

I do find that a rather far-fetched allegation. For one, there are not that many unsafe release situations in general that spring to mind, let alone situations involving AT specifically. Furthermore, it takes quite a tight planning to make it work - including, as you mention, a narrow time-window between pitting of your own car, and the one that you want to hinder - which implies a similar gap should have existed on track. Not a situation Mercedes frequently finds itself in with AT. And finally, there are, to my knowledge, no indications of such instructions being passed between RB and AT - and if that would be the case, the implications could be rather serious. Neither team should want to risk that.

[seense]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Shake my darned head... sigh.. You do realize Gasly got the call to box a minute or so earlier than Hamilton right?

[Stu]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Wow! That is an extra layer of tinfoil right there (are you deliberately looking for conspiracy theories?), a few races ago GR was “a Mercedes driver, and should have behaved as such”, in the same race later LH made a miraculous recovery, easily overtaking several Mercedes-engined runners (Imola). That also had conspiracy written all over it (the quote is Toto, I thought that GR drove for Williams and was racing for position???). Another mad-arsed conspiracy there for you.


If you step back from the mirror you get a much better view of everything that is happening.

Shake my darned head... sigh.. Everything is tin foil hat this or that. New to the sport?

My favourite F1 car EVER (that I can recall watching) is the Williams FW07 (Alan Jones, Silverstone GP).

How long have you been watching?
Do you remember the furore around rule interpretation caused by the translation into English (from the original French)? I do.

[Big Tea]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

Is it any different to asking your 'other driver' to drive to a delta that keeps him in the slot that a competitor would like to exit the pits with fresh rubber? Merc do it and on the odd occasion Red Bull have been able to, they would at least try it. Also cars back down the field probably do but it is not so noticeable

Its not like entering the pits at normal speed infront of someone and slowing down, or leaving the pit box before them and toodling your way back on to the track. Even if it was deliberate, which I don't think, this is the advantage Merc has had over Red Bull for years.

Or are you concerned a second team becomes a weapon? As long as the rules are followed, which are blue flag etc and enforced vigorously anyway, of crashing out during the end of qualifying and stupid stuff like that, it adds interest

[Capharol]

Looking back on Gasly pit stop immediately after Hamilton. This has been an unspoken tactic over the years that teams use to stall their opponents in the pits. RedBull however are fortunate to have four cars. I hate what they did, but it is a proper tactic.

this is such a biased comment... i could have happened to, if it was a Aston Martin or a Ferrari.
then the crash between Russel and Bottas was to help Hamilton aswell?

[PlatinumZealot]

Wow! That is an extra layer of tinfoil right there (are you deliberately looking for conspiracy theories?), a few races ago GR was “a Mercedes driver, and should have behaved as such”, in the same race later LH made a miraculous recovery, easily overtaking several Mercedes-engined runners (Imola). That also had conspiracy written all over it (the quote is Toto, I thought that GR drove for Williams and was racing for position???). Another mad-arsed conspiracy there for you.


If you step back from the mirror you get a much better view of everything that is happening.

Shake my darned head... sigh.. Everything is tin foil hat this or that. New to the sport?

My favourite F1 car EVER (that I can recall watching) is the Williams FW07 (Alan Jones, Silverstone GP).

How long have you been watching?
Do you remember the furore around rule interpretation caused by the translation into English (from the original French)? I do.

Yeah, those DVDs were good. The box set?

I remember the first F1 race like I watched it yesterday. Can't remember if it was DVD or live stream though.

[Stu]

Shake my darned head... sigh.. Everything is tin foil hat this or that. New to the sport?

My favourite F1 car EVER (that I can recall watching) is the Williams FW07 (Alan Jones, Silverstone GP).

How long have you been watching?
Do you remember the furore around rule interpretation caused by the translation into English (from the original French)? I do.

Yeah, those DVDs were good. The box set?

I remember the first F1 race like I watched it yesterday. Can't remember if it was DVD or live stream though.

Oh wow….