2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 04 - 06

[dans79]

The tire pressures and the tire blanket temperatures are supposed to be strictly monitored so I find it hard to believe that the teams found some magical way of lowering the tire pressures.

They could potentially fudge the maximum camber, but even that's easily verifiable in post-race scrutineering.

[ispano6]

they [Pirelli] assuming its the tyre pressure, because the debris excuse is outdated now, so we [Pirelli] start to blame the teams themselves, and because we [Pirelli] cant check it anymore we wash our hands in innocence...

this is so predictable like in a horror move, either the person rans up to the roof or into the basement

Not saying they have done it in this instance, or that no-one else ever has, but Red Bull have been suspected/accused of fiddling with or manipulating tyre pressures in the past, haven’t they, IIRC?

Then why say it?

[El Scorchio]

they [Pirelli] assuming its the tyre pressure, because the debris excuse is outdated now, so we [Pirelli] start to blame the teams themselves, and because we [Pirelli] cant check it anymore we wash our hands in innocence...

this is so predictable like in a horror move, either the person rans up to the roof or into the basement

Not saying they have done it in this instance, or that no-one else ever has, but Red Bull have been suspected/accused of fiddling with or manipulating tyre pressures in the past, haven’t they, IIRC?

Then why say it?

Because I am asking a question rather than making an accusation. And the reason that is, is because I know how precious people on here can be.

[ispano6]

Not saying they have done it in this instance, or that no-one else ever has, but Red Bull have been suspected/accused of fiddling with or manipulating tyre pressures in the past, haven’t they, IIRC?

Then why say it?

Because I am asking a question rather than making an accusation. And the reason that is, is because I know how precious people on here can be.

But you said in your question, "haven't they?" Isn't that answering your own question? If you want to sound the least bit neutral you should rephrase your question. Otherwise it comes off as insinuating that they are up to something they have been accused of before. Why not instead research to see if they have in fact been proven to having fiddled with tire pressures?

The accusation you speak of was a false conjecture on the part of Ham during the 70th Anniversary Silverstone race.

"He must have less pressure in his tyres or something," Hamilton said over his team radio after falling behind the Dutchman.

F1's governing body, the FIA, can track every car's tyre pressure in real time so it is highly unlikely Hamilton's concerns are correct.

So the only explanation why Red Bull outperformed then is because they were cheating, according to Ham.

[dans79]

So the only explanation why Red Bull outperformed then is because they were cheating, according to Ham.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Red Bull and Toro Rosso were accused of this long before Hamilton said anything last year.

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/2116 ... -pressures

Published on 13 May 2016 08:15

Two more teams linked with the trick have been Red Bull and Toro Rosso.

McLaren reportedly suspects that the offending teams have come up with a double-walled rim in which pressure can be released while the car is running, but the FIA says that solution would be illegal. The issue, including a potential enforcement of minimum tyre pressures when the cars are actually running, was reportedly discussed briefly in the teams' briefing with Charlie Whiting on Wednesday. (GMM)

I doubt this is what happened last weekend though, because you would hope if teams were doing something like this 5 years ago, the FIA would know what to look for by now.

[Deadpool]

... Pirelli headquarters after the 2021 Azerbaijan race ...

person 1: sir shall we say that the debris are the cause?

person 2: no ... it's starting to get obvious ...

person 1: worked 7 seasons successfully ...

person 2: no, no, i'm afraid it doesn't work anymore ...journalists become unbearable...

person 1: then what?

person 2: we could make an allusion that it's the fault of the teams ... that they were doing something in the gray zone ... for example reducing the pressure during the race or something...

person 1: but sir ... the Red Bull ... they whine so loudly when someone points a finger at them...especially when they are clean... Max's fans are furious ... and Stroll's father ...

person 2: let's try and we'll see ... we can always step back, modify the tires as a last resort and come up with a story of temperature / abrasiveness of the track / load / not enough tests ...

person 1: ok and what if it happens again ... and it will?

person 2: I don't know ...sigh



edit: any resemblance to real events is intentional

[Capharol]

... Pirelli headquarters after the 2021 Azerbaijan race ...

person 1: sir shall we say that the debris are the cause?

person 2: no ... it's starting to get obvious ...

person 1: worked 7 seasons successfully ...

person 2: no, no, i'm afraid it doesn't work anymore ...journalists become unbearable...

person 1: then what?

person 2: we could make an allusion that it's the fault of the teams ... that they were doing something in the gray zone ... for example reducing the pressure during the race or something...

person 1: but sir ... the Red Bull ... they whine so loudly when someone points a finger at them...especially when they are clean... Max's fans are furious ... and Stroll's father ...

person 2: let's try and we'll see ... we can always step back, modify the tires as a last resort and come up with a story of temperature / abrasiveness of the track / load / not enough tests ...

person 1: ok and what if it happens again ... and it will?

person 2: I don't know ...sigh



edit: any resemblance to real events is intentional

+1

welcome in the conspiracy-club

[nzjrs]

Pirelli still has a few remaining excuses they can deploy 1) we wanted to change the tyres even more but the nasty teams keep rejecting our tyres 2) we wanted in-rim tyre pressure monitoring sensors for 2021 but the nasty FIA delayed it to 2022 3) we need more free practice time but the nasty FIA and the nasty teams reduced the FP time and don't run long runs as much anymore.

[ispano6]

So the only explanation why Red Bull outperformed then is because they were cheating, according to Ham.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Red Bull and Toro Rosso were accused of this long before Hamilton said anything last year.

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/2116 ... -pressures

Published on 13 May 2016 08:15

Two more teams linked with the trick have been Red Bull and Toro Rosso.

McLaren reportedly suspects that the offending teams have come up with a double-walled rim in which pressure can be released while the car is running, but the FIA says that solution would be illegal. The issue, including a potential enforcement of minimum tyre pressures when the cars are actually running, was reportedly discussed briefly in the teams' briefing with Charlie Whiting on Wednesday. (GMM)

I doubt this is what happened last weekend though, because you would hope if teams were doing something like this 5 years ago, the FIA would know what to look for by now.

Hate to burst your bubble but being accused is different from being found guilty. Why is it that you come in and try to add to this nonsense, acting as if this is evidence for reason to believe Red Bull are cheating. Scorchio can answer himself, you don't nerd to come in and try to gang up.

[ispano6]

Pirelli still has a few remaining excuses they can deploy 1) we wanted to change the tyres even more but the nasty teams keep rejecting our tyres 2) we wanted in-rim tyre pressure monitoring sensors for 2021 but the nasty FIA delayed it to 2022 3) we need more free practice time but the nasty FIA and the nasty teams reduced the FP time and don't run long runs as much anymore.

Pirelli is a joke, they can't make run flat tires that can ride on just the walls? All for the show right.

[Sieper]

Well, this is a very dirty tactic. By the way, Pirelli has made no statements. It is an Italian news paper that allegedly heared suspicions from lower level employees or something. So it is said but they bear no responsibility.

If it is true come out and say it, if it is not true, you are damaging 2 teams without any way for them to defend against it. There is no statement from Pirelli.

This sounds like a way of shutting up your customers to me. If they say something next time it happens to whatever team that gets struck they will have the added bonus of being seen as cheaters. A very powerfull move by Pirelli. But also extremely dirty.

So only 2 teams were allegedly doing it, the exact 2 teams that suffered a tire failure. Yup.

[dans79]

Hate to burst your bubble but being accused is different from being found guilty. Why is it that you come in and try to add to this nonsense, acting as if this is evidence for reason to believe Red Bull are cheating. Scorchio can answer himself, you don't nerd to come in and try to gang up.

It looks like you're so interested in casting shade towards Hamilton you didn't even read what I posted...

[TimW]

Well, this is a very dirty tactic. By the way, Pirelli has made no statements. It is an Italian news paper that allegedly heared suspicions from lower level employees or something. So it is said but they bear no responsibility.

If it is true come out and say it, if it is not true, you are damaging 2 teams without any way for them to defend against it. There is no statement from Pirelli.

This sounds like a way of shutting up your customers to me. If they say something next time it happens to whatever team that gets struck they will have the added bonus of being seen as cheaters. A very powerfull move by Pirelli. But also extremely dirty.

So only 2 teams were allegedly doing it, the exact 2 teams that suffered a tire failure. Yup.

It is a very common tactic in the current fake new era. 'Leak' alternative explanations to divert attention from yourself. Theories can be as farfetched as you want, internet communities will pick up anything and carry it forward for you.

[carisi2k]

He would have been dead last from leading a race, doesn't make sense. even if the car is fast and he could easily claw back the gap, we cannot say if he would crash with slower cars or get held up by the cars with high top speed.
High risk he didn't need to take if running first

I don't think he would have been dead last since half the field pitted. He would have come out about 10 or 11th and with fresh tyres he would have easily passed slower cars. The Red Bulls had such a huge advantage but were not able to fully show it. He could have gained 2-3 spots just going into the first turn with his fresh tyres just like Alonso did.

Just look back to the 2018 Chinese grand prix for what happens when cars are on different age tyres and Daniel did that with a car that was inferior to the Merc and Ferrari. Max would have had the fastest car on a track that is easy to pass on compared to Monaco where this wouldn't have made any sense to do.

[Big Tea]

He would have been dead last from leading a race, doesn't make sense. even if the car is fast and he could easily claw back the gap, we cannot say if he would crash with slower cars or get held up by the cars with high top speed.
High risk he didn't need to take if running first

I don't think he would have been dead last since half the field pitted. He would have come out about 10 or 11th and with fresh tyres he would have easily passed slower cars. The Red Bulls had such a huge advantage but were not able to fully show it. He could have gained 2-3 spots just going into the first turn with his fresh tyres just like Alonso did.

Just look back to the 2018 Chinese grand prix for what happens when cars are on different age tyres and Daniel did that with a car that was inferior to the Merc and Ferrari. Max would have had the fastest car on a track that is easy to pass on compared to Monaco where this wouldn't have made any sense to do.

It was quite likely during that race that a yellows or VSC or even full SC would be in force at any time. That means no overtaking, and at the back is where he would stay until most of the benefit was lost.