General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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godlameroso
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Indeed, it's a strange twist of fate, Wazari had a hand in the s2000, and that car was responsible for everything I know and understand about cars. The feeling of that car was the main motivation for everything that came after.
Saishū kōnā

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Wouter
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FrenchGP Race Setup. Circuit Paul Ricard

Bonjour Paul Ricard! After a near two year wait, we're returning home with Pierre for the French Grand Prix at this popular venue on the Cote d’Azur.

Our last run out in 2019 saw only one of our four Honda powered cars finish in the points, so in 2021 we'll be aiming for the podium and a strong weekend for both teams.

Toyoharu Tanabe
Honda Racing F1 .................

A word from the four drivers ..................
https://honda.racing/motogp/post/french-gp-race-setup
The Power of Honda!

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ispano6
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:02 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:13 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:34 am


Yasuaki Asaki is the head of Honda's F1 engine development.
However, Wazari (with his team) has played a very important role in the progression of the engine, hence Wazari and his team. Ultimately, of course, Asaki is responsible for how the engine performs.
Also a big thank you to Asaki, who has a hell of a team.
Asaki was who assembled Honda's secret skunkworks in 2017-18 and brought in key personnel from other divisions . And Tanabe and Motohashi and the trackside operation team are extracting the maximum from the power unit that has been given to them. The engineer from the motorcycle division credited for the engine plating was really nervous about how the PU would hold up but was relieved when it became known that it gave their ICE a whole new world of possibilities.
Not sure when you joined the site but you may have missed out on the stories of the foundational developments that were laid on the combustion side leading into 2017. Wazari had to convince the group that they had to change to a more reliable combustion concept that he had a key role in.

The plating stuff and Turbocharger bearings came afterward. All good works, mind you. But we are bigging up Wazari because of the journey we took with him. It was live. It was real. And what he did say did eventually happen. Asaki and Co. Are great.. But we know Wazari so he gets the biggest bug-up here =D>
Yes, I know of the posts here by Wazari and am not discounting the contributions of those leading up to Spec4 into 2018. I am pointing out the team that has brought forth the successes of 2019-21 which were in large part by the secret group within Honda that even other Honda employees were not aware existed. The shaft bearings, turbine blades, and combustion shape all amounted to the success of 2019 and the plating in 2020 led to the realization of the limit they had reached with that architecture which paved the way to the 2021 engine built in 6 months. I translated the article that revealed the Kumamoto plating but only wrote here about part 1 and intentionally left out part 2 and another segment because I felt it would be too revealing in what Honda were planning, and that is somewhat apparent now that the Nhk special part 2 has been examined by F1 journalists who undoubtedly got clues from this forum. I would not be surprised if other manufacturers have taken note and hence why I have refrained from posting any in depth translations.

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ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:16 am
Yes, I know of the posts here by Wazari and am not discounting the contributions of those leading up to Spec4 into 2018. I am pointing out the team that has brought forth the successes of 2019-21 which were in large part by the secret group within Honda that even other Honda employees were not aware existed. The shaft bearings, turbine blades, and combustion shape all amounted to the success of 2019 and the plating in 2020 led to the realization of the limit they had reached with that architecture which paved the way to the 2021 engine built in 6 months. I translated the article that revealed the Kumamoto plating but only wrote here about part 1 and intentionally left out part 2 and another segment because I felt it would be too revealing in what Honda were planning, and that is somewhat apparent now that the Nhk special part 2 has been examined by F1 journalists who undoubtedly got clues from this forum. I would not be surprised if other manufacturers have taken note and hence why I have refrained from posting any in depth translations.
#-o #-o #-o
The engineering departments of the motor divisions are much further in their development than you might imagine. Everything that gets into the press most likely lost its relevance a few years ago. And what you present with such pomp in the breakthrough achievements of Honda could have been introduced by rivals earlier, they just did not talk about it. And all the more, they do not need to study the press in order to emphasize something for themselves there, tk. it will be secondary knowledge.

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PlatinumZealot
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Posts here from Wazari were real insider stuff but without revealing anything secret which was nice. We had a closer insight than even the Japanese magazines dare I say! O:)

Grateful for that. He's a good inspiration too. Lessons for any technology company. Keep your old heads they know the ways of the industry/technology, bring in young ones, allow freedom to make mistakes, never compromise funding and never compromise the engineering functionality. Collaborate. Pool resources.
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Wouter
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The Power of Honda!

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_cerber1 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:00 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:16 am
Yes, I know of the posts here by Wazari and am not discounting the contributions of those leading up to Spec4 into 2018. I am pointing out the team that has brought forth the successes of 2019-21 which were in large part by the secret group within Honda that even other Honda employees were not aware existed. The shaft bearings, turbine blades, and combustion shape all amounted to the success of 2019 and the plating in 2020 led to the realization of the limit they had reached with that architecture which paved the way to the 2021 engine built in 6 months. I translated the article that revealed the Kumamoto plating but only wrote here about part 1 and intentionally left out part 2 and another segment because I felt it would be too revealing in what Honda were planning, and that is somewhat apparent now that the Nhk special part 2 has been examined by F1 journalists who undoubtedly got clues from this forum. I would not be surprised if other manufacturers have taken note and hence why I have refrained from posting any in depth translations.
#-o #-o #-o
The engineering departments of the motor divisions are much further in their development than you might imagine. Everything that gets into the press most likely lost its relevance a few years ago. And what you present with such pomp in the breakthrough achievements of Honda could have been introduced by rivals earlier, they just did not talk about it. And all the more, they do not need to study the press in order to emphasize something for themselves there, tk. it will be secondary knowledge.
Much of what was written in the European f1press was what was posted here from translations. I seriously doubt that anyone not Japanese bought the actual magazine and translated for the purposes of publishing an article in the European press. Only superficial information was mentioned in those articles where as the Japanese publication goes into far more detail but none of that was ever mentioned because it was never translated and posted here. After the information regarding Kumamoto plating was revealed we did start hearing about other teams working on new plating materials. Sure, could be coincidence or the standard progression of development, but you only know what you hear or read about. Sometimes a secret should stay that way and I certainly don't feel the need to have to share details. Never underestimate the power of information, even second hand.

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bigblue
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If it's been published, it's in the public domain. I don't think Honda would release information to a Japanese publication, with the intent that no other manufacturer will find out, because it's encrypted in Japanese ! Anyway, you are free to have your own opinion on this, and exercise your judgement as you see fit, and thanks for the bits you shared.

Singabule
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:41 pm
Posts here from Wazari were real insider stuff but without revealing anything secret which was nice. We had a closer insight than even the Japanese magazines dare I say! O:)

Grateful for that. He's a good inspiration too. Lessons for any technology company. Keep your old heads they know the ways of the industry/technology, bring in young ones, allow freedom to make mistakes, never compromise funding and never compromise the engineering functionality. Collaborate. Pool resources.
Yeah, remember he told us about smaller packaging from the rod and cylinder head, he also mention that the head is using spring instead of pneumatic to achieve minimum packaging. The turbo, seal, combustion concept, etc.. So that is the 2021 spec that he is talking about, in 2017... =D>
And fighting with Muramansa, that's epic :mrgreen:

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PlatinumZealot
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ispano6 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:33 am
_cerber1 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:00 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:16 am
Yes, I know of the posts here by Wazari and am not discounting the contributions of those leading up to Spec4 into 2018. I am pointing out the team that has brought forth the successes of 2019-21 which were in large part by the secret group within Honda that even other Honda employees were not aware existed. The shaft bearings, turbine blades, and combustion shape all amounted to the success of 2019 and the plating in 2020 led to the realization of the limit they had reached with that architecture which paved the way to the 2021 engine built in 6 months. I translated the article that revealed the Kumamoto plating but only wrote here about part 1 and intentionally left out part 2 and another segment because I felt it would be too revealing in what Honda were planning, and that is somewhat apparent now that the Nhk special part 2 has been examined by F1 journalists who undoubtedly got clues from this forum. I would not be surprised if other manufacturers have taken note and hence why I have refrained from posting any in depth translations.
#-o #-o #-o
The engineering departments of the motor divisions are much further in their development than you might imagine. Everything that gets into the press most likely lost its relevance a few years ago. And what you present with such pomp in the breakthrough achievements of Honda could have been introduced by rivals earlier, they just did not talk about it. And all the more, they do not need to study the press in order to emphasize something for themselves there, tk. it will be secondary knowledge.
Much of what was written in the European f1press was what was posted here from translations. I seriously doubt that anyone not Japanese bought the actual magazine and translated for the purposes of publishing an article in the European press. Only superficial information was mentioned in those articles where as the Japanese publication goes into far more detail but none of that was ever mentioned because it was never translated and posted here. After the information regarding Kumamoto plating was revealed we did start hearing about other teams working on new plating materials. Sure, could be coincidence or the standard progression of development, but you only know what you hear or read about. Sometimes a secret should stay that way and I certainly don't feel the need to have to share details. Never underestimate the power of information, even second hand.
Your translations? I see. Good work.

We had a guy called Muramasa who was doing a bit of translating too. He had a little tiff with another Japanese user but haven't seen him since.
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ispano6
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bigblue wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:05 pm
If it's been published, it's in the public domain. I don't think Honda would release information to a Japanese publication, with the intent that no other manufacturer will find out, because it's encrypted in Japanese ! Anyway, you are free to have your own opinion on this, and exercise your judgement as you see fit, and thanks for the bits you shared.
Let's just say that just because it's released in the "public" domain doesn't mean that anyone has access to it. It is after all privileged information that can only be attained by having access to the publication by purchasing or subscribing to it. The documentary by NHK, for instance, is not allowed to be broadcast or reproduced outside of Japan. There is an inherent naivety on the part of the Japanese to think that no one outside of Japan is interested or paying attention - the galapagos effect - which is certainly a trait (good or bad) on the part of the Japanese. Personally I'm of the opinion that Honda should stay quiet and not allow these articles or documentaries to reveal their innovations, but then it wouldn't be the Honda that everyone expects and respects.

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ispano6
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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:46 pm

Your translations? I see. Good work.

We had a guy called Muramasa who was doing a bit of translating too. He had a little tiff with another Japanese user but haven't seen him since.
Yup, the article on Kumasei-mekki. But I've decided not to do them anymore.

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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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ispano6 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 am
bigblue wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:05 pm
If it's been published, it's in the public domain. I don't think Honda would release information to a Japanese publication, with the intent that no other manufacturer will find out, because it's encrypted in Japanese ! Anyway, you are free to have your own opinion on this, and exercise your judgement as you see fit, and thanks for the bits you shared.
Let's just say that just because it's released in the "public" domain doesn't mean that anyone has access to it. It is after all privileged information that can only be attained by having access to the publication by purchasing or subscribing to it. The documentary by NHK, for instance, is not allowed to be broadcast or reproduced outside of Japan. There is an inherent naivety on the part of the Japanese to think that no one outside of Japan is interested or paying attention - the galapagos effect - which is certainly a trait (good or bad) on the part of the Japanese. Personally I'm of the opinion that Honda should stay quiet and not allow these articles or documentaries to reveal their innovations, but then it wouldn't be the Honda that everyone expects and respects.
I love your contributions mate. It's always really appreciated. But to be honest, it's naive to think "no one else purchased the publications". I am living proof of that...

Aside from types like us and this forum, you can bet some media high profiles with a huge interest like Craig Scarborough or Sam Collins etc, not to mention those in known media outlets, would of spent the small fee on that publication. I'd go so far as to say they aren't doing their job if they didn't.

The information Honda have released might seem like a lot and I see plenty of people expressing surprise, but it's still very superficial stuff. All the really special, fine details are all left out. Sure, tell us you've moved the camshafts closer together to aid packaging and change combustion chamber shape. Tell us you have an experimental new coating that's unlocked your ICE's limit, tell us you've made vast improvements to the Turbo to compensate for ICE efficiency gain, tell us you made a breakthrough with the MGU-H, it's cross-block shaft and it's balancing, tell us you've found big gains in your battery development in Milton Keynes and tell us you've got a unique combustion concept.

This is all extremely exciting stuff to hear and it gives me great satisfaction waking up in the morning to see a new article regarding Honda. And it's something no other manufacturer really does with sharing this, but at the same time they are giving us next to no detail whatsoever, well not enough that would be very useful to rivals or something that risks exposing their concepts. So I wouldn't call the Japanese naive, they aren't sharing their IP. All of it is clear they err on the side of caution with what they share, but this also lets them publicly celebrate the engineering prowess they've displayed. Honda has done a huge justice for the V6 Hybrids. Celebrating the majesty that they are in a way that no other manufacturer on the field has and doing so very publicly while acknowledging the excellence of their engineers. Kudos from me.

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ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:15 am
ispano6 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 am
bigblue wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:05 pm
If it's been published, it's in the public domain. I don't think Honda would release information to a Japanese publication, with the intent that no other manufacturer will find out, because it's encrypted in Japanese ! Anyway, you are free to have your own opinion on this, and exercise your judgement as you see fit, and thanks for the bits you shared.
Let's just say that just because it's released in the "public" domain doesn't mean that anyone has access to it. It is after all privileged information that can only be attained by having access to the publication by purchasing or subscribing to it. The documentary by NHK, for instance, is not allowed to be broadcast or reproduced outside of Japan. There is an inherent naivety on the part of the Japanese to think that no one outside of Japan is interested or paying attention - the galapagos effect - which is certainly a trait (good or bad) on the part of the Japanese. Personally I'm of the opinion that Honda should stay quiet and not allow these articles or documentaries to reveal their innovations, but then it wouldn't be the Honda that everyone expects and respects.
I love your contributions mate. It's always really appreciated. But to be honest, it's naive to think "no one else purchased the publications". I am living proof of that...

Aside from types like us and this forum, you can bet some media high profiles with a huge interest like Craig Scarborough or Sam Collins etc, not to mention those in known media outlets, would of spent the small fee on that publication. I'd go so far as to say they aren't doing their job if they didn't.

The information Honda have released might seem like a lot and I see plenty of people expressing surprise, but it's still very superficial stuff. All the really special, fine details are all left out. Sure, tell us you've moved the camshafts closer together to aid packaging and change combustion chamber shape. Tell us you have an experimental new coating that's unlocked your ICE's limit, tell us you've made vast improvements to the Turbo to compensate for ICE efficiency gain, tell us you made a breakthrough with the MGU-H, it's cross-block shaft and it's balancing, tell us you've found big gains in your battery development in Milton Keynes and tell us you've got a unique combustion concept.

This is all extremely exciting stuff to hear and it gives me great satisfaction waking up in the morning to see a new article regarding Honda. And it's something no other manufacturer really does with sharing this, but at the same time they are giving us next to no detail whatsoever, well not enough that would be very useful to rivals or something that risks exposing their concepts. So I wouldn't call the Japanese naive, they aren't sharing their IP. All of it is clear they err on the side of caution with what they share, but this also lets them publicly celebrate the engineering prowess they've displayed. Honda has done a huge justice for the V6 Hybrids. Celebrating the majesty that they are in a way that no other manufacturer on the field has and doing so very publicly while acknowledging the excellence of their engineers. Kudos from me.
I get what you're saying. I'm not saying that no one else is purchasing the Japanese publications. These are publications that do not have English versions published. So even as you say those like Craig Scarborough and Sam Collins are purchasing the Japanese language publications such as AS-web, they are via print or PDF only, and unless you have the high quality PDFs or the magazines scanned and a sophisticated image to text translation software, they are having people read the articles and manually translating them, as there are no English versions available. I felt a great deal of reservation writing about the things written in the publications, and honestly some details aren't as superficial as you might think. I can accept that it's reflective of their confidence in their technology and when I say the naivety of the Japanese I'm not talking about Honda - that is a comment with regard to NHK and As-web!

Also, if you're able to find the March NHK documentary on Kumamoto plating and know of where it can be re-watched I'd like to know. The only article I read was the Q&A of Asaki during the press conference but I seemed to have lost my recording of the documentary and wanted to look up some names mentioned in it.

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PlatinumZealot
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I ran one of these articles through a translator a few times. It's not so hard actually to connect the dots because the information is mostly superficial and usually Honda posts a lot imagery around it.

The most complex release they made was the one in 2016(2017?) On the MGUK management and extra harvest. I didn't need perfect translation even thought concopt was so complex because they had beautiful telemtry and numbers. And you know what they say in engineering.... Our language is numbers and diagrams.
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