Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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With Ocon (under Wolff’s management) signed a long term deal with Alpine, it looks like he knows what the next couple of years at Mercedes will look like (and that doesn’t include Ocon).
Sure bet seems to be Russell of course but I think Hamilton will stay for at least three more years.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:51 pm
With Ocon (under Wolff’s management) signed a long term deal with Alpine, it looks like he knows what the next couple of years at Mercedes will look like (and that doesn’t include Ocon).
Sure bet seems to be Russell of course but I think Hamilton will stay for at least three more years.
Yeah, Maybe Ocon's contract is lined up with the next Hamilton contract. If Lewis signed a 3 year deal like Ocons it would mean Ocon is available at the right time and if hes been good enough he would slide straight in at Merc. it would also mean Hamilton would retire around a month before his 40th b'day which is an age he has said he doesnt want to race at. That all kind of makes perfect sense.
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Sieper
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:36 am
DChemTech wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:22 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:20 pm

I thought anyone could win in a Mercedes, so why the concern if Hamilton retires along an unproven driver 8)
Well, anyone could. At least, in the past few years when Merc was the absolutely dominant car. And Bottas did win.
Now the gap is smaller, so it may be harder for any driver to win in the Mercedes.
And Hamilton is proving his worth yet again.

I thought the whole "anyone can win in the Mercedes ' was just a pop at Lewis to discredit his wins and achievements. So of Bottas fails to win a race then that just adds to Hamiltons achievements.

p.s anyone can win in a redbull as proven this season :lol:
Of course not. Hamilton is good enough to win even on equal footing, but he has had a car that was not on equal foot for many years now. Winning so far this season in a Merc is still eminently possible, it is just not a given anymore. Bottas not winning any races and Hamilton still winning does show something, yes. But we can also not forget Monaco and that max “lost” Baku (anyone can win in a redbull) was a bit of a cheap shot. Come on. In fact, Lewis would have won it if it wasn’t for a Button (not Jenson). A magic one (not Johnson).
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Sieper wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:28 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:36 am
DChemTech wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:22 pm


Well, anyone could. At least, in the past few years when Merc was the absolutely dominant car. And Bottas did win.
Now the gap is smaller, so it may be harder for any driver to win in the Mercedes.
And Hamilton is proving his worth yet again.

I thought the whole "anyone can win in the Mercedes ' was just a pop at Lewis to discredit his wins and achievements. So of Bottas fails to win a race then that just adds to Hamiltons achievements.

p.s anyone can win in a redbull as proven this season :lol:
Of course not. Hamilton is good enough to win even on equal footing, but he has had a car that was not on equal foot for many years now. Winning so far this season in a Merc is still eminently possible, it is just not a given anymore. Bottas not winning any races and Hamilton still winning does show something, yes. But we can also not forget Monaco and that max “lost” Baku (anyone can win in a redbull) was a bit of a cheap shot. Come on. In fact, Lewis would have won it if it wasn’t for a Button (not Jenson). A magic one (not Johnson).
Yeah I'm just messing, I know very well that you still need to be a top driver to win any race in F1. The 'anyone can win in that car' is absolute rubbish, always has been.
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Another race where Bottas fell through. Attacking his team about the strategy wasn't smart either, you attack the hand that is feeding you and are putting Mercedes in a bad spotlight like this.
He doesn't keep his cool and let's face it, he made that mistake all by himself. He didn't even put up a fight at all. That wasn't tires, that was all him. Losing out then to Perez aswell is another strike. Nobody would claim he had a easy task, far from it. The opposite, really, but he's not driving an easy team. He isn't new.

RedBull as a team now collected 11 points more than Mercedes in the title fight. If Valterri kept it in front of Perez, that would have been just 8 points.
The biggest issue here is not neccesarily that Bottas had much chance to finish anywhere else but 4th, the issue is that his incapability to put up a fight against Max for more than 1 or 2 laps tops cost Mercedes much, much more. By the time Max was behind him, Max' tires were going backwards. If he managed to actually defend and not just step aside and say "here you go sir, after you",
then he would have first of all held Max back for perhaps that 1 or 2 crucial laps which would have simply meant Max ran out of time to pass on hamilton, but also further wear Max' tires so that it would have become impossible to beat him.

Bottas gets paid for this job, and he doesn't do it. Had he done just that, then Lewis would have managed to finish P1, with Max P2. He would definately been overtaken by Perez too but that was gonna happen anyway. He then could have entered the pits, taken on fresh tires, and set the fastest lap.

This would mean Mercedes would have finished with 6 points more than today, and, obviously, RedBull 6 points less,
and would see 184 constructor points for Mercedes and 209 for RedBull. The gap would then be 25 points instead of the 37 points it is now.

It would also see Max lead with 125 points,
and Hamilton just behind him with 124 points.

This is why Bottas is failing and why he is asking for replacement. Perez is now 25 points ahead of him in the WDC even!

Last season Mercedes won the Austrian and Steiermark GP's, mainly due to RB's electrical problems and having the better car.
Instead, it seems RedBull does have the slightly better overall package right now, and are running without issues, even though it is understood
that Baku could have ended in disaster with underlying reliability problems.

Either way, Mercedes is not going to have a walk in the park in Austria, they're gonna have a good fight on their hands.
Max can put up a fight, Hamilton can put up a fight, and we have now proof that Perez can put up a fight, but Bottas - he just doesnt.

He had the benefit of the doubt this weekend to claim the chassis was problematic and this new chassis did wonders and brought him back in the game,
only to just completely lose it again.

Meanwhile, where does his likely replacement finish?
P12 in a Williams! with NO cars whatsoever in a DNF.

That's beating cars far up his material league like Tsunoda, Ocon, Giovanazzi, Raikkonen and Leclerc.

No matter how you put it, Bottas right now IS the weakest link @ Mercedes.

Let's see how he does in Austria. He MUST repack himself and finish top 3. He HAS to atleast keep Perez behind him, and if Hamilton is P1,
make sure that he will make sure that he can keep that P1 to his team, and not fumble it into the hands of the competition.

I wouldn't normally even dream Mercedes would replace someone mid-season.
But the way Bottas is going about now, he is actually forcing Mercedes' hands.
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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@Manoah: now you’re just trippin’ man. Bottas had a good weekend and suffered from an unfortunate strategy decision.

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Scorpaguy
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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zeph wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:34 am
@Manoah: now you’re just trippin’ man. Bottas had a good weekend and suffered from an unfortunate strategy decision.
This may have been Bot's best weekend of the year...good pace all weekend...pace enough to win. F1 is a team sport and the RB team was a bit more game today. I hope we are given more of this Max vs. Ham and Checo vs. Bot. Given equal strategies, I think Merc could have eeked out a 1-2 today. However, public griping about Toto's strategy is another nail in his coffin.

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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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zeph wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:34 am
@Manoah: now you’re just trippin’ man. Bottas had a good weekend and suffered from an unfortunate strategy decision.
To add to this, Bottas was responsible for the strategy himself. He flatspotted his tires in the first stint, forcing Mercedes to pit him early. They knew that this would trigger Max to pit as well, but couldn't do anything about it (they feared that Bottas' suspension could break)

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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zeph wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:34 am
@Manoah: now you’re just trippin’ man. Bottas had a good weekend and suffered from an unfortunate strategy decision.
Must be trippin

"RedBull as a team now collected 11 points more than Mercedes in the title fight. If Valterri kept it in front of Perez, that would have been just 8 points."

It would in fact have been 5 points :lol:
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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Although what I would say is that Bottas appeared to put up more of a fight against his own team mate in Spain than either Red Bull here! Perez on the other hand was playing the team game perfectly. Then again, I think Perez is perfectly clear and happy with what his role is, for now. I don't think Bottas is at all happy with what his role is probably going to have to be for the rest of the season. Rather than outright performance issues, I could see that as the only feasible reason Bottas might get yanked or swapped for Russell before the season is out if he cannot either challenge for significant points OR be willing to support his team mate fully. He's going to have to do one of those two things or he's of no use whatsoever.

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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:34 pm
Although what I would say is that Bottas appeared to put up more of a fight against his own team mate in Spain than either Red Bull here! Perez on the other hand was playing the team game perfectly. Then again, I think Perez is perfectly clear and happy with what his role is, for now. I don't think Bottas is at all happy with what his role is probably going to have to be for the rest of the season. Rather than outright performance issues, I could see that as the only feasible reason Bottas might get yanked or swapped for Russell before the season is out if he cannot either challenge for significant points OR be willing to support his team mate fully. He's going to have to do one of those two things or he's of no use whatsoever.
I wonder how early they will? re-sign Perez? It could be a calming psycological influence on him and might be a good strategic move and something to bring the team together. Cement the idea that he will have next year to fight for the championship if this year he continues to only support Max.

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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:38 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:34 pm
Although what I would say is that Bottas appeared to put up more of a fight against his own team mate in Spain than either Red Bull here! Perez on the other hand was playing the team game perfectly. Then again, I think Perez is perfectly clear and happy with what his role is, for now. I don't think Bottas is at all happy with what his role is probably going to have to be for the rest of the season. Rather than outright performance issues, I could see that as the only feasible reason Bottas might get yanked or swapped for Russell before the season is out if he cannot either challenge for significant points OR be willing to support his team mate fully. He's going to have to do one of those two things or he's of no use whatsoever.
I wonder how early they will? re-sign Perez? It could be a calming psycological influence on him and might be a good strategic move and something to bring the team together. Cement the idea that he will have next year to fight for the championship if this year he continues to only support Max.
I'm sure Perez is wise enough to know that his only chance to fight for the title next year is to hit the first part of the season flat out and on the top step. Red Bull will favour Max, I think, in any 50/50 calls if the they're close after the first few European races. Perez has to make them think "Perez is the better bet for this season". And even then, I'm not sure Marko wouldn't still put Max first in any marginal calls.
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:47 pm
I'm sure Perez is wise enough to know that his only chance to fight for the title next year is to hit the first part of the season flat out and on the top step. Red Bull will favour Max, I think, in any 50/50 calls if the they're close after the first few European races. Perez has to make them think "Perez is the better bet for this season". And even then, I'm not sure Marko wouldn't still put Max first in any marginal calls.
I'm thinking equally from the politics angle, RB signing Perez early will allow Horner and Marko to needle Toto and MB about their uncertain driver lineup. It would be a good destabilizing play IMO.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:38 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:34 pm
Although what I would say is that Bottas appeared to put up more of a fight against his own team mate in Spain than either Red Bull here! Perez on the other hand was playing the team game perfectly. Then again, I think Perez is perfectly clear and happy with what his role is, for now. I don't think Bottas is at all happy with what his role is probably going to have to be for the rest of the season. Rather than outright performance issues, I could see that as the only feasible reason Bottas might get yanked or swapped for Russell before the season is out if he cannot either challenge for significant points OR be willing to support his team mate fully. He's going to have to do one of those two things or he's of no use whatsoever.
I wonder how early they will? re-sign Perez? It could be a calming psycological influence on him and might be a good strategic move and something to bring the team together. Cement the idea that he will have next year to fight for the championship if this year he continues to only support Max.
Absolutely- it's a very interesting one actually, with regard to Perez. Obviously he went from not having a drive to having a great one, so I wouldn't like to tar him with the 'just glad to be there' brush. It's clear he is very effective in the car and can win races, so I wonder if there's an agreement of give us this year and then have freer rein next year.

I really hope they keep him. It would be pretty bad if he helped them to the double and then they didn't pick up his option or extend him.

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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:49 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:47 pm
I'm sure Perez is wise enough to know that his only chance to fight for the title next year is to hit the first part of the season flat out and on the top step. Red Bull will favour Max, I think, in any 50/50 calls if the they're close after the first few European races. Perez has to make them think "Perez is the better bet for this season". And even then, I'm not sure Marko wouldn't still put Max first in any marginal calls.
I'm thinking equally from the politics angle, RB signing Perez early will allow Horner and Marko to needle Toto and MB about their uncertain driver lineup. It would be a good destabilizing play IMO.
Well it might be useful to play on Bottas's mind if not Toto's. The likelihood is that Perez is more likely to score heavier than Bottas in any 50/50 situations if Bottas feels that he's being dropped at the end of the season with nowhere else to go.
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