2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yup, and that top speed data from amus, at what times in the race were these achieved. In the end on low fuel (when redbull got most of their DRS assisted runs) and Merc was on badly worn tires so couldn’t do these anymore or earlier, when merc still had the tires and got drs by max.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

f1rules
f1rules
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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well there is a reason for the high top speed, look at that gigantic difference in rw, its crazy
This rb car is amazing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W1L7dXEAI ... name=large
Image
Image
Last edited by f1rules on Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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RZS10
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:19 pm
Yup, and that top speed data from amus, at what times in the race were these achieved. In the end on low fuel (when redbull got most of their DRS assisted runs) and Merc was on badly worn tires so couldn’t do these anymore or earlier, when merc still had the tires and got drs by max.
Probably the highest speed achieved with DRS at any point in the race?

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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah, but is that fair, because for RBR those probably came much later in the race, with less fuel and merc sitting on no rubber anymore could not match even if they had a drs at that time. Also, at the other measuring points the story was a bit different:


Speed trap
1 4 L. NORRIS 349.2
2 33 M. VERSTAPPEN 337.0
3 11 S. PEREZ 336.4
4 5 S. VETTEL 336.3
5 63 G. RUSSELL 334.9
6 7 K. RAIKKONEN 334.5
7 3 D. RICCIARDO 334.3
8 10 P. GASLY 334.3
9 18 L. STROLL 333.3
10 14 F. ALONSO 332.6
11 22 Y. TSUNODA 332.2
12 99 A. GIOVINAZZI 331.5
13 47 M. SCHUMACHER 331.2
14 31 E. OCON 331.1
15 16 C. LECLERC 330.2
16 55 C. SAINZ 329.4
17 9 N. MAZEPIN 328.5
18 6 N. LATIFI 324.3
19 77 V. BOTTAS 321.2
20 44 L. HAMILTON 320.7

FINISH LINE KM/H
10 P. GASLY 321.4
63 G. RUSSELL 313.1
4 L. NORRIS 312.9
3 D. RICCIARDO 311.8
18 L. STROLL 311.5
5 S. VETTEL 310.8
99 A. GIOVINAZZI 310.8
6 N. LATIFI 310.4
33 M. VERSTAPPEN 309.1
14 F. ALONSO 308.9
55 C. SAINZ 308.6
22 Y. TSUNODA 307.5
31 E. OCON 307.5
7 K. RAIKKONEN 307.2
77 V. BOTTAS 307.0
11 S. PEREZ 306.7
44 L. HAMILTON 305.7
47 M. SCHUMACHER 303.8
16 C. LECLERC 303.7
9 N. MAZEPIN 302.3



INTERMEDIATE 2 KM/H
10 P. GASLY 291.8
11 S. PEREZ 290.9
5 S. VETTEL 288.0
63 G. RUSSELL 286.7
4 L. NORRIS 285.4
33 M. VERSTAPPEN 285.1
44 L. HAMILTON 285.1
6 N. LATIFI 284.2
55 C. SAINZ 283.3
18 L. STROLL 283.0
14 F. ALONSO 282.8
3 D. RICCIARDO 282.6
77 V. BOTTAS 282.4
22 Y. TSUNODA 282.2
7 K. RAIKKONEN 281.4
16 C. LECLERC 281.1
31 E. OCON 280.7
99 A. GIOVINAZZI 279.0
9 N. MAZEPIN 276.2
47 M. SCHUMACHER 276.1
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1rules wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:50 pm
well there is a reason for the high top speed, look at that gigantic difference in rw, its crazy
This rb car is amazing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W1L7dXEAI ... name=large
Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W4qkoWUAM ... name=small
How things have changed. :)

Image
Hakuna Matata!

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It would really seem the regulation changes really affected rear downforce for the Mercs more than it did with RB.

Mercedes so far have not shown any substantial upgrade to their car since launch. If this continues, then RB is looking really good for the championship.

darkpino
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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What really struck me was the capability to learn from their own faults (of RBR). Most motorsport fans always talk about Ferrari regarding strategy mistakes and somehow it seems to be like that for years now.

RBR (imo) made a mistake in Bahrain, maybe Spain but I think they just didn't had the speed there. Here they turn the tables and copy the Mercedes strategy from Spain which in my opinion was really, really something which showed that they don't take anything for granted and are learning from their own mistakes

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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:15 pm
etusch wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:35 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:14 pm
Very pleased with the result today, but think the W12 was the faster car today. Only Max's driving and the good team effort with strategy got them the win. So with regards to a potential sustained world championship fight: still work to do for RB.
Aren't results show that they are working and working right?
It was clear after the first stops how much faster Mercedes still is under equal race condition strategy. You nomally cant follow but HAM was within 7 tenths for 10 laps straight, only lacking a bit top speed. You cant keep relying on this strategy and 2 stop conditions. The RB16B needs to get some extra race pace, or the championships will still go to the W12
Maybe Mercedes a bit faster but you can not get conclusion by .7 gap for 10 laps. At the end merc could not overtake Redbull with even drs help. This is not only car thing and will never be like that, unless car is .5/1.0 sec faster per lap over rival which is not case anymore. Mercedes's car is slightly better at race pace but every other thing is better at Redbull. So you have to concern more about Mercedes team's race operation rather than Redbull speed shortage which is very small and vary from race to race. As you can see they can win with that gap by good team operation.

TNTHead
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:25 am
f1rules wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:50 pm
well there is a reason for the high top speed, look at that gigantic difference in rw, its crazy
This rb car is amazing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W1L7dXEAI ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W1L7dXEAI ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W4qkoWUAM ... name=small
How things have changed. :)

https://i.imgur.com/ULc8MT1.jpg
Lets not forget that we are comparing a low car vs. a high rake car. That means that the floor from the (high raked) RB car is contributing for a greater part to the total df. As a consequence the rear wing can be kept smaller. Still a visible and substiantial difference though, for sure.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:34 am
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:15 pm
etusch wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:35 pm


Aren't results show that they are working and working right?
It was clear after the first stops how much faster Mercedes still is under equal race condition strategy. You nomally cant follow but HAM was within 7 tenths for 10 laps straight, only lacking a bit top speed. You cant keep relying on this strategy and 2 stop conditions. The RB16B needs to get some extra race pace, or the championships will still go to the W12
Maybe Mercedes a bit faster but you can not get conclusion by .7 gap for 10 laps. At the end merc could not overtake Redbull with even drs help. This is not only car thing and will never be like that, unless car is .5/1.0 sec faster per lap over rival which is not case anymore. Mercedes's car is slightly better at race pace but every other thing is better at Redbull. So you have to concern more about Mercedes team's race operation rather than Redbull speed shortage which is very small and vary from race to race. As you can see they can win with that gap by good team operation.
Even if that all is true, unless Max can prevent an undercut at end of stint one, what is it worth? He has not once been able to do so on any normal race track. Here he pulled off a 3.1 second undercut on Hamilton, which I think left everyone in disbelief. Myself and friends certainly.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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HPD
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1rules
f1rules
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah for sure, still, maybe this underlines even further that mercs concept has been hit harder, before they could balance it out with their gigantic limo floor, whereas now they have to rely on the rw for the car to perform. RB on the otherhand seem to reduce rw even more then last year suggesting their floor is still performing amazingly
found this picture, even running a narrower rw it looks like they also run less AoA.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4aPnRGXMAA ... name=large
Image

TNTHead wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:25 pm
Ryar wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:25 am
f1rules wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:50 pm
well there is a reason for the high top speed, look at that gigantic difference in rw, its crazy
This rb car is amazing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W1L7dXEAI ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W1L7dXEAI ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4W4qkoWUAM ... name=small
How things have changed. :)

https://i.imgur.com/ULc8MT1.jpg
Lets not forget that we are comparing a low car vs. a high rake car. That means that the floor from the (high raked) RB car is contributing for a greater part to the total df. As a consequence the rear wing can be kept smaller. Still a visible and substiantial difference though, for sure.

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Aren’t we just looking at tirelife choices? More wing means longer tirelife (more planted). Max made it with 1 lap to spare and that undercut was a total surprise, that it worked.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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etusch wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:34 am
Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:15 pm
etusch wrote:
Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:35 pm


Aren't results show that they are working and working right?
It was clear after the first stops how much faster Mercedes still is under equal race condition strategy. You nomally cant follow but HAM was within 7 tenths for 10 laps straight, only lacking a bit top speed. You cant keep relying on this strategy and 2 stop conditions. The RB16B needs to get some extra race pace, or the championships will still go to the W12
Maybe Mercedes a bit faster but you can not get conclusion by .7 gap for 10 laps. At the end merc could not overtake Redbull with even drs help. This is not only car thing and will never be like that, unless car is .5/1.0 sec faster per lap over rival which is not case anymore. Mercedes's car is slightly better at race pace but every other thing is better at Redbull. So you have to concern more about Mercedes team's race operation rather than Redbull speed shortage which is very small and vary from race to race. As you can see they can win with that gap by good team operation.
These conditions will not keep happening. Also see Portimao. If RB wants Max (in my book clearly the fastest driver at the moment) to have a real chance to get the WDC he needs the car to be a bit closer in race pace to Mercedes, who are king on race pace. You can extract everything over 1 lap (like the France pole lap), but doing that over a race distance is not achievable not even for Max Verstappen
True GOATs don’t need the help of superior material to win.

Tom Brady, Usain Bolt are true GOATs.

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etusch
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Location: Turkey

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Why you don't assume merc bad strategy will last whole season but assume that Redbull pace deficit will last? Why you didn't assumed Mercedes deficit at monaco and Baku last whole season but you think merc pace advantage will last whole season?
It is good sign for Redbull that they can beat with slover car and bad for merc to beaten with faster one.
I don't deny they have to improve and I am sure they are working on it. They were generally good at inseason development. Let's see what we will see. I hope this close competition will last until last race.