2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[El Scorchio]

Here's my take on things happening right now.

- Ever since the W12 got introduced to the world, was it Allison that said the car basically 90% the same as the W11?
- Then there's the mysterious rumours on how Merc were going to use the tokens for updates this season. Is there any news on that if they have used any at all so far?
- Despite having lost out for the past 3 races in a row to RB, I still feel they remain call with the momentum shift moving to RB right now.

So because of the above, I think maybe Merc planned to use the W12 just to do the bare minimum effort of getting the job done so far and when they don't get the job done, just settling for what's the best result possible in that outcome. Just be thereabouts in the championship within strong contention of fighting for the championships.

We've seen it in the past with Mclaren and Ferrari, where they delayed an introduction of their new car for the season. Are we maybe not realizing this is the case at Merc atm? Are we going to see a Merc that we should have seen at the start of the season, but maybe only introduced after the Summer break for example?

It would bring the meaning of sandbagging to an entirely new level.

I think the politicking about rear wings and tyre pressures indicates there's not a great deal in reserve to bring this season. They might just have made a decision to do only limited work and let the cards fall where they may, or they have thought (wrongly) they'd still have enough to win the titles regardless. It's either calculated or careless.

[basti313]

Here's my take on things happening right now.

- Ever since the W12 got introduced to the world, was it Allison that said the car basically 90% the same as the W11?
- Then there's the mysterious rumours on how Merc were going to use the tokens for updates this season. Is there any news on that if they have used any at all so far?
- Despite having lost out for the past 3 races in a row to RB, I still feel they remain call with the momentum shift moving to RB right now.

So because of the above, I think maybe Merc planned to use the W12 just to do the bare minimum effort of getting the job done so far and when they don't get the job done, just settling for what's the best result possible in that outcome. Just be thereabouts in the championship within strong contention of fighting for the championships.

We've seen it in the past with Mclaren and Ferrari, where they delayed an introduction of their new car for the season. Are we maybe not realizing this is the case at Merc atm? Are we going to see a Merc that we should have seen at the start of the season, but maybe only introduced after the Summer break for example?

It would bring the meaning of sandbagging to an entirely new level.

I think the politicking about rear wings and tyre pressures indicates there's not a great deal in reserve to bring this season. They might just have made a decision to do only limited work and let the cards fall where they may, or they have thought (wrongly) they'd still have enough to win the titles regardless. It's either calculated or careless.

I think it is the calculation unfortunately.
We hear them say all the time that they have budgetary issues. RB also claimed about budget with reduced number of front wings, but not at the cost saving extend as Merc.
I fear the issue is the same issue that was the power of the Mercedes F1 team: Mercedes in Stuttgart.
In the past they boosted the budget, they helped with technology and testing. Now the more pressing issue is compliance. If Merc F1 bends the rules and they get caught, this might be the immediate end of Merc F1. Mainly on the terms of budget, they have no chance to use any grey areas in the financial limits. And this limits them this season extremely as they need to push all budget to 2022.

[Hammerfist]

Is there anything in the pipeline for Merc in terms of upgrades? I hear nothing. If that is the case, Redbull will leave them for dead as they usually develop aggressively throughout the year.

This is no normal season though. At some point each team has to switch focus to the new cars. I think Merc already has.

When you are fighting for the championship it makes no sense to abandon development completely for the final year before a big regulation change. I am pretty certain Redbull won't do that. You can clearly see that their car is getting stronger and stronger. Noone has any idea who will get it right for next year. It's a crap shoot. It could be a team like Mclaren or even worse, Ferrari and they might be untouchable. Moreover, with all the budget restrictions it's a big and a terrible gamble to give up on a strong base and focus on next year only.

[214270]

Every time they try to motivate BOT over the radio I fear for the worst. I can’t believe they’ve not figured out how to do it after all these years. They should give him the base facts and then shut up & let him get on with it.

Weirdly, they actually did a good job giving him the higher engine mode in practice to build confidence; unfortunately, they have no idea what to do in the race.

[Marty_Y]

It could be 2017 all over again
Vettel was leading Lewis by 12 points after 7 races

The difference is Red Bull team is better than Ferrari in race execution

So it'll be a tough task to beat them this year without making the car at least as fast as theirs

I don't see Lewis overtaking Max unless Mercedes actually do some work to their car to improve it. Red Bull are probably going to keep developing their car for a while yet and they see the title as available. I think Mercedes have just taken the decision to do as little as possible with their car and use the resources for the big rule change next year. I wonder if that was based on a belief that their car was good enough anyway, or maybe they think the rule change for this year meant the car was basically as good as they can get it and so there's nothing to gain from trying to develop it.

This was my view as well. But I was reminded earlier in this thread that they had stopped development early last year supposedly to focus on this year too. So what have they been doing for almost half of last year? They couldn't have been working on the 2022 challenger too since they couldn't start work on that until this year.

I think James Allison said in one of his introducing the W12 videos (possibly for sky F1) that they started working on the W12 early then had to throw that work away because of regulation changes, they started again then there was more changes (possibly the tyres this time), so they started from scratch twice. He called it regulation vandalism or something equally as colourful.

[Phil]

I am disappointed and annoyed at Mercedes after this race at France. Two points are inexusable IMO:

1. Covering the undercut
They practically force Max into a pitstop by pitting Bottas - RedBull react, yet decide to leave Hamilton out an extra lap despite the 3s gap and the fact that Mercedes usually tend to have slower stops than RedBull and could use any extra margin they get.

This easily cost them the win, as this put them in the backseat in regards to how proactive they wanted to be on a potential second stop. If they had been ahead, they could have threw that decision on if to go to two stops from the lead insead of being reactive and in the end not being able to.

2.) fastest lap
This one baffles me the most. Pitting Valtteri to go for the fastest lap would have been a no brainer. He had the gap (and them some) and it would have stopped Max and RedBull gaining an extra point in both championships. I dont understand why they didnt. It’s only one point (a swing of two) but in such a championship, every point counts. I can’t help but think a team like RedBull would have maximized every single opportunity.

Despite all this, i am surprised how calm Lewis was in the post race interview. I just cant help but think this was a race that they lost on strategy that could have been won, had they not messed up on that first pitstop misjudgement.

[dans79]

I concur with both these points.

I am disappointed and annoyed at Mercedes after this race at France. Two points are inexusable IMO:

1. Covering the undercut
They practically force Max into a pitstop by pitting Bottas - RedBull react, yet decide to leave Hamilton out an extra lap despite the 3s gap and the fact that Mercedes usually tend to have slower stops than RedBull and could use any extra margin they get.

This easily cost them the win, as this put them in the backseat in regards to how proactive they wanted to be on a potential second stop. If they had been ahead, they could have threw that decision on if to go to two stops from the lead insead of being reactive and in the end not being able to.

2.) fastest lap
This one baffles me the most. Pitting Valtteri to go for the fastest lap would have been a no brainer. He had the gap (and them some) and it would have stopped Max and RedBull gaining an extra point in both championships. I dont understand why they didnt. It’s only one point (a swing of two) but in such a championship, every point counts. I can’t help but think a team like RedBull would have maximized every single opportunity.

Despite all this, i am surprised how calm Lewis was in the post race interview. I just cant help but think this was a race that they lost on strategy that could have been won, had they not messed up on that first pitstop misjudgement.

[e30ernest]

Point 1, I think they wanted to get a 1-2. The undercut looked pretty powerful, so undercutting Verstappen with Bottas could have resulted to Bottas gaining track position over Max. They did not expect Max to catch up to Lewis though (maybe they could have pitted Lewis 1 lap earlier). Had the Bottas undercut worked, they could probably have had Lewis stay in front for a Merc 1-2. It was a gamble that didn't work.

Point 2, I agree.

[El Scorchio]

Point 1, I think they wanted to get a 1-2. The undercut looked pretty powerful, so undercutting Verstappen with Bottas could have resulted to Bottas gaining track position over Max. They did not expect Max to catch up to Lewis though (maybe they could have pitted Lewis 1 lap earlier). Had the Bottas undercut worked, they could probably have had Lewis stay in front for a Merc 1-2. It was a gamble that didn't work.

Point 2, I agree.

This is a problem for them. They are caught in no man's land trying to play the team comes first game against a team who is playing the driver comes first game which at the moment is forcing them into decisions ultimately proving detrimental to both WDC and WCC hopes. Sunday was a perfect example. They overreached for a 1-2 without really having the package to do so and ended up with a 3-4. I think the more they chase the WCC, the more the chances of either championship disappear.

They need to very quickly make a call as to what their priority is for the season. hate to say it given how people can react, but unless there's some significant upgrades coming, the WCC is gone. But they can still compete for the WDC. However that does require sacrifice from Bottas and I don't think he'd be willing. (Don't blame him)

[dans79]

However that does require sacrifice from Bottas and I don't think he'd be willing. (Don't blame him)

If he won't, he might find himself out of F1 all together next season!

[El Scorchio]

However that does require sacrifice from Bottas and I don't think he'd be willing. (Don't blame him)

If he won't, he might find himself out of F1 all together next season!

He certainly wouldn't be doing himself any favours long term. But I guess sportspeople are a rare breed who don't always think pragmatically like that.

[dans79]

The most annoying thing right now is that the team has literally done almost nothing to the car!

[Big Tea]

I am disappointed and annoyed at Mercedes after this race at France. Two points are inexusable IMO:

1. Covering the undercut
They practically force Max into a pitstop by pitting Bottas - RedBull react, yet decide to leave Hamilton out an extra lap despite the 3s gap and the fact that Mercedes usually tend to have slower stops than RedBull and could use any extra margin they get.

This easily cost them the win, as this put them in the backseat in regards to how proactive they wanted to be on a potential second stop. If they had been ahead, they could have threw that decision on if to go to two stops from the lead insead of being reactive and in the end not being able to.

2.) fastest lap
This one baffles me the most. Pitting Valtteri to go for the fastest lap would have been a no brainer. He had the gap (and them some) and it would have stopped Max and RedBull gaining an extra point in both championships. I dont understand why they didnt. It’s only one point (a swing of two) but in such a championship, every point counts. I can’t help but think a team like RedBull would have maximized every single opportunity.

Despite all this, i am surprised how calm Lewis was in the post race interview. I just cant help but think this was a race that they lost on strategy that could have been won, had they not messed up on that first pitstop misjudgement.

(Apparently) Bottas had bad vibration from his tyres and Merc were afraid it would cause damage. They had no option other than to pit Bottas, and going by all the info they had (apparently again), all the numbers said 3 seconds was enough time for Ham to retain the lead. Max, it seems had not read this and put in a scorching out lap.

The run for fastest lap, Merc had complained to race control that the pass on Bottas was done with all 4 wheels off the track, so they expected a 5 second penalty and Bottas was told to stay less than 5 sec behind and inherit the 3rd slot.

He was unable to do so but by this time there was not enough time for a warmup and Banzi lap.

I can see their thinking on both, but as we saw, Merc are not used to racing two cars. This may have been a wake up call to them

[Marty_Y]

The most annoying thing right now is that the team has literally done almost nothing to the car!

I agree that it is annoying, but I personally think the most frustrating thing is the performance of the team and drivers.

Theoretically Bottas could have got pole in Monaco, and would have at least got second place if his pit stop wasn't botched.

Bottas went backwards in Baku from a poor starting position, Lewis should have won from the restart but accidentally pressed the brake magic button.

Poor strategy cost the win at France.

My point being that although the W12 is nowhere near as superior as the W11 was, it has still been capable of winning races, admittedly they would have had won because of Max's bud luck in Baku but they have lost so many points from avoidable mistakes it's embarrassing.

That's just my personal opinion anyway.

[zibby43]

Is there anything in the pipeline for Merc in terms of upgrades? I hear nothing. If that is the case, Redbull will leave them for dead as they usually develop aggressively throughout the year.

Upgrades rumored for Austria.

What’s the source of this?

I believe AMuS. It was during the run-up to French GP week, and they said no updates for Merc in France.

Austria has been a location for several large Merc upgrades in the past. If we don’t see one here, I just don’t realistically see how Merc can win on the basis of car performance.