2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

[grubschumi13]

All last year we heard Brundle say "Thank God for Max Verstappen" for hanging onto the Mercs in a vastly inferior car. Despite his car's inferiority he challenged Bottas only finishing 9 points behind Bottas in the all conquering w11.

Now RBR have managed to get a just a little bit more closer to Mercedes, just enough for Max's talent to now match and Hamilton's Mercedes.

If it were Albon and Perez in RBR we would be talking about how Mercedes has dominated for another year. RBR's car is inferior and it is Max making the difference week in week out.

Wrong. No driver can produce more lap time than the car is able to produce. The best drivers get closer to the car's limits. If Max is doing a lap time, then it shows the car is able to do that time. Indeed, it's actually able to do more than that as no human can drive an F1 car at 100% of it potential.

Max might be better than Lewis but the Red Bull is better than the Mercedes on this track on this day.

How do you know?

If Perez was ahead of the Mercs I would say yes, but that is not the case.

Perhaps the dominance + underdog talk of Mercedes in all these years people have a shifted paradigm of competitiveness. They seem to only view Mercedes as strongest when they are utterly dominant, when it is actually close they label the Merc as the weaker car just because they are so used to seeing dominant cars of them.

Exactly When dominant, equality suddenly seems unfair. Had Perez beat a Merc I would admit they are quicker here.

Both Mercs are qualifying top 3 in 5 of the 8 races so far. RBR in only 1 of 8 races have they been top 3.

So far this season Merc have been the stronger car in the race. Since the first race of this season all the races have been exciting both in on tract action and strategy. It is very competitive and Max is the difference. Everyone knows this.

[Rodak]

With regards to Sky: no problem to be biased for your own citizens. However the FOM made it a problem by choosing Sky as the interviewers and commentator for the global feed. They should have a neutral team for that.

Thats FOM's problem though, so not a SKY problem. Maybe FOM should put a team together.

I paid for the F1 feed and enjoy the ability to watch races at reasonable times, as I live on the west coast of the US and REALLY don't like to watch races at 6:00 am. Crofty is an issue, so I just turn the sound off for the first few laps. It's really refreshing not to hear that shouting.....

[PlatinumZealot]

Is it. I think it is extremely close. Merc still, again on P2 and P3. As they have been (two cars in the top 3) on most normal race tracks. Come race day Mercedes has had the quicker car most races as well. Like last race. But there an very unexpected undercut and a second stop caught them off guard.

The driver can make ten times more difference in the race, I agree. this is why we see one Merc in particular close up to the Bull on race days. Experience and mastery with managing tyres. Good observation my guy.

[Mr.S]

In Q1 on softs, Verstappen was only half a tenth ahead of Bottas (0.05). On Q2 on Mediums he was virtually tied with the faster Mercedes (.447 & 0.457). In Q3, he had less than 2 tenths on Bottas. Hamilton once again made a mistake & Bottas could have done better in Q3. The gap on Softs is possibly 1 tenth or maybe 2 tenths on light fuel qualifying runs when Mercedes is struggling to get the tyres working as good as the RB. On Mediums, there is no gap, even in qualifying where RB work better. So on race, Mercedes should have a slight advantage to RB or atleast tied on Mediums . On Hards, they definitely should have a narrow advantage. Race pace wise, I think RB & Mercedes will once again be separated by 1 or 2 tenths, depending on who is in the dirty air or track temperature etc. But the gap is so small that it shouldn't matter but I would say Mercedes up by a tenth or so.

Hamilton was dunked on badly by Toto who in affect called out nonsensical claims about the engine & said the obvious thing that RB ran a small wing & a much more low drag configuration & that PU can't magically change from 1st Unit to 2nd Unit.

Hamilton has had 6 Championships with little competition from any other team & has already been making wild conspiracy theories as he finally has to compete on more equal terms! His 6 tenths through Flexi Wing proved a big joke & is the most ridiculous claim so far !

RB have the quicker driver in 2021 r ("His personal claim 2 tenths"). Hamilton is 36 & his best trait was his raw pace & 1 lap qualifying pace. He isn't as quick as he used to be & never had the intelligence or racecraft as MSC or Prost anyways. Verstappen has had a perfect qualy in virtually every single race so far. So, I would go with advantage Max with Hamilton finishing close behind. The gap is so small that weather, strategy could change everything !

And funny to see Hamilton continuously pleading to have Bottas signed as team-mate for next year. Don't know why he is so afraid of Russel who has 0 key moment experience or podiums. This is what happens with 0 competition for 4 straight years !

[langedweil]

Drivers need the car.
...
The best drivers can take the car closer to its limits.
..
The question is who can produce top level performances year after year after year?

That's not the question, that's simply the guy with the best car and (even a little) more talent than his teammate ... as you state yourself.
And I guess that's exactly why the goat worshipping annoys a lot of people. Sure, you still have to be badass/smart/resourceful/cunning at the wheel, but winning in a (insanely) dominant car isn't that special as you only fight your teammate.
I'd bet that in the case Ham wins de WDC by 1pt in Abu Dhabi in a Baku-like rollercoaster alike race, he will see it by far as his best WDC ever. Just because he had to fight like a madman ..
Same goes for Ver ofcourse, but it would always be the best of 1 (hence, the first one)

Luckily for us all there is no more dominance this year; + or - 0.1s/0.2s is totally unpredictable, and absolutely raceble. One could only imagine how we would be on the edge of our seats when Mcl ánd Ferrari would have an equal performance compared to Merc and Rbr; 5-8 guys fighting for pole every week!

But I'm drifting off ..
Ham is only human, just like the rest of the guys. However, all competitors just have to think of him as a german; you can only be sure you defeated him when you're in bed afterwards with the lights out .. he's an extremly worthy competitor. But there are more around like him.

[langedweil]

..
The forum will have discussions about who is the best for years to come. And no one will ever be able to say "this driver is the best ever". So why bother?

Wise words ...

[Mr.S]

BTW apart from this Max-Lewis thing, let us also acknowledge Norris, Russel etc. George freaking Russel was 3.5 tenths behind RB in Q2. That is incredible. Even if you take 4.5 or 5.5 tenths due to Soft/Medium difference he was 8-9 tenths behind @ best even on equal tires. That is amazing compared to the pace of the Williams. Incredible performance by him !

And Norris also. 0.279 down on Max is incredible. He was less than 1 tenth down on both Mercedes. Amazing job ! Gasly too has been very very consistent ! He has really destroyed Marko's project Tsunoda. Great to see Alonso coming into rhythm & in Q3 ! Alpine has had decent race pace in non-street circuits especially with harder tyres !

Rain would mix everything up & would be fun! We haven't had a good race with rain spells so far !

[ringo]

If Perez was ahead of the Mercs I would say yes, but that is not the case.

Nonsense. I have to be blunt with my response, as I notice you repeat this flawed logic a few times. Perez is new to Redbull, and he will not be able to operate the car on the same level as Max. He is in fact underperforming in qualifying and he has been quoted as saying as much. He was never a good qualifier, and his driving style is unusual, so he will naturally need more time to get a comfortable setup that will agree with red bull's historical setup data that has been mostly based on Max's feedback. Where Perez is putting the red bull is not where it should be. In time he should improve, but I don't think he will come within 0.25s of Max if both were at their best with the best setup.

As others have said, no one can outperform the car; especially on a dry track.
The redbull car is the better car. It's low downforce setup has more downforce than Mercedes normal downforce setup.
It's straight line speed is higher, it's apex speed is higher, its balance is better, and its agility is better. We have data and video that agrees with this. It brings the tyres up to temperature quicker as well, and traction is also better than Merc. To top it off the pitstops are on average better.
Most of these observations are not new for this year. They have always had a very good chassis, we have seen this from the last set of races in 2020. What is happening now is the engine is providing them with more scope to add downforce, and the new diffuser regulations have hurt mercedes more.

It is okay to say redbull did the better job and have the better car. And I say this not to say which driver is better or worse. I really don't care. Lewis is 36 and Max is 23; it make no sense to compare them as they are at different stages of their careers. If Lewis was under 30 years old the comparisons would be a little exciting. Even when Alonso was up against Michael in 2005 and 2006, no reasonable fan was comparing a 24 year old Alonso to a 36 year old Michael in terms of talent. It just made no sense. For me it's pleasing enough that Lewis is even able to go toe to toe with Max, in Q3 and demonstrate his ability to preserve tyres, or maintain race pace. Max has more to prove than Lewis this year. If Lewis loses, he can blame old age, and lack of motivation. He already has 7 titles.

[McMika98]

Is it. I think it is extremely close. Merc still, again on P2 and P3. As they have been (two cars in the top 3) on most normal race tracks. Come race day Mercedes has had the quicker car most races as well. Like last race. But there an very unexpected undercut and a second stop caught them off guard.

The driver can make ten times more difference in the race, I agree. this is why we see one Merc in particular close up to the Bull on race days. Experience and mastery with managing tyres. Good observation my guy.

Let's not also forget that car competitiveness varies track to track, where are Ferrari in last two races after being one of the fastest in street circuit.
The RedBull is a very good race car and in quali will match Merc in all circuits, Honda have a monster unit that is getting the likes of Alpha Tauri to solid quali positions. Merc don't have PU advantage and this year are at backdoor due to reg changes.

[Juzh]

max vs ham q3 (open in yt)
watch?v=1WR2dryYEt8

wtf
Why is this video not banned since youtube says it has to be opened in youtube because it contains F1´s copyrighted material?

Are they now allowing "us" to upload F1 videos and monetizing it for themselves?

Yes, its possible to upload some clips that fom then claim and monetise. Not very many and its somewhat random what goes and what doesnt.

[ispano6]

BTW apart from this Max-Lewis thing, let us also acknowledge Norris, Russel etc. George freaking Russel was 3.5 tenths behind RB in Q2. That is incredible. Even if you take 4.5 or 5.5 tenths due to Soft/Medium difference he was 8-9 tenths behind @ best even on equal tires. That is amazing compared to the pace of the Williams. Incredible performance by him !

And Norris also. 0.279 down on Max is incredible. He was less than 1 tenth down on both Mercedes. Amazing job ! Gasly too has been very very consistent ! He has really destroyed Marko's project Tsunoda. Great to see Alonso coming into rhythm & in Q3 ! Alpine has had decent race pace in non-street circuits especially with harder tyres !

Rain would mix everything up & would be fun! We haven't had a good race with rain spells so far !

Destroyed Tsunoda? He's a kid in his first year... Gasly is doing well and Tsunoda is simply learning. A lot of people acknowledge his potential and I expect to see good improvement from him this season.

[Sieper]

Tsunoda was quite quick at moments this weekend. A track where he has been in F2 (and did well at).

[Morteza]

[Pyrone89]

Those Pirelli predictions are always way off the mark. Best just to look at what the top teams are doing. They obviously feel yellow - white is quickest.

[Pyrone89]

Any updates on weather forecasts?