So Toto sent a diagram proofing that it was Lewis’ fault?
At which point was Hamilton significantly ahead approaching the corner?
The diagram does not make sense as for the situation on the left both drawings are the same. But on the most left the green car must be ahead as it says that the car on the inside must be significantly ahead.
I have now gotten my hands on the diagram that Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff emailed to FIA race director Michael Masi during the race. This applies as a recommendation for actions for drivers and as an orientation for the FIA race stewards in order to classify such collisions.
The diagram clearly shows that a driver trying to overtake an opponent in a corner does not have to be on the same level. An example image on which the front wheel of the attacking car is only about one wheel width in front of the rear wheel of the defending car ("significant overlap") is literally illustrated as follows: "The corner is yours. Provided you can make it through the corner cleanly."
It is therefore clear: The question of guilt is not as clear as Red Bull wanted to sell to us. And given this diagram, it is also understandable why Mercedes' chief race engineer Andrew Shovlin even thinks that the ten-second penalty was too severe. Because it would have been Verstappen who should have yielded, and not Hamilton.
Now you can argue heartily about whether this rule (which, admittedly, was not previously known to me in this form) makes sense. But the fact is: the drivers and teams of course knew more about it than the TV viewers and I, who in the first impulse were mostly inclined to declare Hamilton insane and of course blamed him.
A reflected study of the collision also includes the fact that Hamilton certainly had his share in the crash, and so I stick to my assessment from the video race analysis on Sunday evening, which read: Hamilton, unlike Verstappen, tried to prevent contact (at least at the last moment). [edit: what?] But the punishment was justified in my subjective perception.
If Lewis thinks that it was a racing incident (as do a good amount of drivers, pundits, etc)… Why should he apologize?ArcticWolfie wrote:I think Hamilton's emotions got the better of him and lost himself there for a moment, instead of taking the "loss" and lift for a moment... As a competitive person myself I can totally imagine it. As a Max fan I can let that part go actually, but I'm galled because of his arrogance and outrage celebration. He f*cked up in the heat of the moment, but doesn't show any remorse and refuses to apologize.Fulcrum wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 19:37Driver61: "In my opinion, this was 100% Lewis Hamilton's fault."
As for the incident itself, probably still a racing incident in my book, with more blame attributable to Hamilton.
The issue here is really the brinkmanship both drivers are beginning to engage in.
My suspicion is, Hamilton did the calculus and realized the potential outcomes of contact in that corner largely favoured him, rolled the dice, and was proved correct. Further, he appears relatively remorseless.
As PZ has said already, Hamilton is an expert at driving in the 'grey zone'; not being dirty as such, but walking the line between hard and illegal driving. Moreover, he is obviously competitive, so the gloves are off in that regard.
Verstappen... Well he's already declared himself with THAT tweet, and what with the environment of Marko and Horner, I cannot imagine he will be able to rise above the histrionics, or de-escalate the tension, which is a shame because I think he could walk away with this title if he simply remained calm and rational, rather than resorting to petulance.
Overall, I suspect race threads are going to get locked more often this year. I just hope no-one gets hurt, whatever happens.
And maybe even worse; he probably triggered an engine penalty later in the season because while Honda says the engine "may" be salvageable, it will be a huge gamble. The reliability may be damaged by the crash and cause a failure later on. Gambling on reliability issues or take a penalty for a new engine?... not an easy choice. (this is without taking the cost cap in consideration).
This race may have decided the championship already.
Now I’ve had a better look at it and both are different, you’re right. The original english version makes sense, it says “overlap”. The german translation is not correct. „Überhang“ would mean that something is ahead of some other thing. The right translation would have been “Überschneidung“ for example.RZS10 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 21:32They are not the same and the text does not say that he must be significantly ahead (?)
It says "signifikanten Überhang" which translates to "significant overlap". Ahead would be "signifikant vorne" or similar.
There's an article which has a further explanation https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel ... n-21071902
As someone here pointed out, He was in Coventry and the tweet was tagged as SilverstoneHoffman900 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 19:53I don’t buy the being offended at the celebration part.
Especially how we celebrate quotes from Grand Prix, and romanticize greats of the past for being ruthless in their pursuit of victory, and applaud Max for having many of the same attributes.
How many times have we heard Max compared to a young Senna?
Lewis won at his home track, in front of the first full grand stands since 2019… he’s going to be amped.
It’s not an either or thing and it’s just a “no offense, but” type of statement.
Max went to the hospital for precautionary reasons, because Silverstone doesn’t have a CT scanner like other tracks. 51g’s is a hard impact for sure, but NASCAR and Indy Car routinely have those. It’s not unheard of or especially rare. He walked away under his own power and that’s what was relayed to Lewis when Lewis asked.
No amount of Horner / Marko spin changes those facts.
Max’s car being wrecked isn’t Lewis problem. Much as it would be the same if roles were reversed.
I don’t agree. When a car has 6kph advantage over you in a straight line it’s going to be almost impossible to get past it. Verstappen couldn’t let Hamilton past he just couldn’t if he wanted to win. Remember also if that happens he has a Mercedes directly in front and another only 2 cars behind he would have been pincered in the pit stops.subcritical71 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 16:07Interesting that this is missing in most discussions. Just because you may not be found at fault for an incident doesn't mean you will not come out on the loosing end of the incident. Knowing when to push and when to attack will be learned over time. I believe if Max would have just backed out of it he would have passed in the next laps anyway. The Red Bull just seems too strong against Mercedes at the moment.ringo wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 15:57People are saying this narrativd that Lewis made a "mistake" again. Lewis did not make any mistakes. He knew exactly where he eas placing his car to make that corner. The car would have been around that corner safely and at a lower speed than normal. In fact i dont think there was any significant understeer either. Lewis intent was simply to occupy the space while turning to keep Max off the apex forcing him to take a wider line. It was not a wreckless dive bomb into a closing gap.
Max is more at fault for playing a game he had no business playing with his pointd advantage. And turn in hard like a mad man, knoeing full well LH44 was occupying the inside of the track.
I am glad it is over and think the discussion should shift. I always maintained that Lewis has mind games in his arsenal. He will continue to present Max with tough decisions to make.. go for it or back out.
When Lewis takes back the lead of the championship he will go back to being conservative and protecting his points.
This is just something Max has never experienced. He will do well to learn game theory.
Depends whether you want to be WC or just win a race.Restomaniac wrote: ↑19 Jul 2021, 22:06Verstappen couldn’t let Hamilton past he just couldn’t if he wanted to win. Remember also if that happens he has a Mercedes directly in front and another only 2 cars behind he would have been pincered in the pit stops.