2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Hammerfist
Hammerfist
8
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:18 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

mkay wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:51 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:30 pm
mkay wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:18 pm


Did he? Bottas outqualified him (on a track layout both hadn't driven before), and Bottas was reeling him in before the pitstop shenanigans occurred.

Anyway... off-topic at this stage.

Don't know that the upgrades worked for sure. I think track temps definitely played a part in Mercedes' strong form in qualifying vs. Red Bull. It's clear however they were lacking race pace on the C2 and I suspect that's where Max would have probably driven away had he stayed ahead of Lewis at Copse.

C1 pace was good, but we don't know how well RB/Max would have done.

Let's hope Merc can further optimise the package because I'm not convinced; I still think it's Max's to lose. WCC might be different because of how poorly Perez is driving at the moment. Also, TBD whether Max will have to either take a fresh PU early and a penalty down the line.
Did we not see Lewis on saturday sit right behind Max for 15ish laps on the C2, just like he did with Charles on Sunday?
Yes, but it felt to me like Max had it under control and was managing the gap (which increased to about 3 seconds by lap 13 or so) until the blistering warning from his team. Hamilton wasn't really able to get close to DRS vs. Max.

On the other hand, HAM was able to run sub 1.5s gap to LEC for a while, and came close to activating DRS, until the tyres starting giving up towards the end of the stint. That indicates to me he probably had slightly stronger pace but not enough to pass.

To be fair though, since Max didn't run on Sunday, we have no proper yardstick. Also, temperatures were marginally warmer on Sunday, and it does look like either Merc regressed on full tanks + warmer temps, or Leclerc/Ferrari got stronger, compared to the Sprint Qualifying.

I guess we'll have a better idea in 2 weeks. I suspect Ferrari will be very strong around Budapest, especially considering the forecast temps.
Leclerc might put it on pole in Hungary for sure. THat Ferrari is the best car in the slow speed stuff this year and it seemed they improved their high speed cornering as well for Silverstone. But then again Redbull just keeps bringing updates every race...

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
531
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

A Mercedes one-two is the dream result for Hungary but RedBull is not to be understimated. Was it 2019 when Max should have won if not for a strategy error?
. . . . . .. .... ..

zibby43
zibby43
697
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:08 am
A Mercedes one-two is the dream result for Hungary but RedBull is not to be understimated. Was it 2019 when Max should have won if not for a strategy error?
The W11 was dominant in Hungary. Looking forward to seeing how the upgrades pair with a higher downforce spec. It was only the 3rd race of the season last year but Verstappen was 1.4s off Hamilton’s pole time.

And 2019 wasn’t so much a strategy error by RB as it was a strategy masterstroke for Mercedes.

mkay
mkay
10
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:34 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:08 am
A Mercedes one-two is the dream result for Hungary but RedBull is not to be understimated. Was it 2019 when Max should have won if not for a strategy error?
The W11 was dominant in Hungary. Looking forward to seeing how the upgrades pair with a higher downforce spec. It was only the 3rd race of the season last year but Verstappen was 1.4s off Hamilton’s pole time.

And 2019 wasn’t so much a strategy error by RB as it was a strategy masterstroke for Mercedes.
Red Bull had major issues in Hungary for whatever reasons, though. They clearly fixed those issues is subsequent races.

In 2019, Merc had superior race pace/tyre wear but for whatever reason suffered massive understeer in qualifying

User avatar
SiLo
128
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Merc need some cool races, but can't seem to catch a break with the weather these days.
Felipe Baby!

testing
testing
2
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:55 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

The update to the floor seems to have brought some top speed/ downforce.

But when I look at qualy comparison videos, it seems that Merc have also found some more traction from low speed corners. Especially compared to Austria, where they were hopeless in that regard... It could be the result of track conditions and/or tyres, but I think that they actually might have tweaked power delivery from the PU a little bit.

Getting tyres in the right operating window still remain a bit of a question mark though.

zibby43
zibby43
697
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

testing wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:04 am
The update to the floor seems to have brought some top speed/ downforce.

But when I look at qualy comparison videos, it seems that Merc have also found some more traction from low speed corners. Especially compared to Austria, where they were hopeless in that regard... It could be the result of track conditions and/or tyres, but I think that they actually might have tweaked power delivery from the PU a little bit.

Getting tyres in the right operating window still remain a bit of a question mark though.
Yep, seeing them running that RW that was trimmed out even more than last year’s points to a jump in efficiency. Especially considering they were having to run Barcelona-levels of wing in Austria a few weeks ago.

The updated bargeboard reconfiguration is clearly getting more air to the rear of the floor and diffuser. Whereas the high-rake cars are achieving this result much more easily this year, it took Merc a while to come up with some aero surfaces to achieve the same goal without raising the ride height.

dans79
dans79
398
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

testing wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:04 am
The update to the floor seems to have brought some top speed/ downforce.

But when I look at qualy comparison videos, it seems that Merc have also found some more traction from low speed corners. Especially compared to Austria, where they were hopeless in that regard... It could be the result of track conditions and/or tyres, but I think that they actually might have tweaked power delivery from the PU a little bit.

Getting tyres in the right operating window still remain a bit of a question mark though.
In early races they had clipping at the end of the straits, most likely because they were deploying a lot of power mid strait to compensate for the extra drag, generated by a big dirty rear wing.

With less drag from the large wing, they can probably squeeze out a little more lap time, by deploying it earlier in the acceleration phase.

It might even help them heat up the rear tires quicker, as they can put more energy into them.
176 101 100 7

holeindalip
holeindalip
16
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:58 am
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:36 am
testing wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:04 am
The update to the floor seems to have brought some top speed/ downforce.

But when I look at qualy comparison videos, it seems that Merc have also found some more traction from low speed corners. Especially compared to Austria, where they were hopeless in that regard... It could be the result of track conditions and/or tyres, but I think that they actually might have tweaked power delivery from the PU a little bit.

Getting tyres in the right operating window still remain a bit of a question mark though.
In early races they had clipping at the end of the straits, most likely because they were deploying a lot of power mid strait to compensate for the extra drag, generated by a big dirty rear wing.

With less drag from the large wing, they can probably squeeze out a little more lap time, by deploying it earlier in the acceleration phase.

It might even help them heat up the rear tires quicker, as they can put more energy into them.
Exactly, this has a knock on effect as well. With less drag they can start with less fuel helping race pace..

zibby43
zibby43
697
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Great points gents. Looking forward to the Zandvoort updates.

User avatar
Morteza
2612
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
33
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

It's always a good debrief when James Allison does it, he's always very thorough and the debrief is normally longer.

User avatar
El Scorchio
59
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Quite a good explanation of the FIA guidelines and how they pertain to 'the incident' as well.

He is good.

What amuses me about these vids is the background picture they use. Nice use of racing paraphernalia and motoring books in the background, alongside a Dishoom book(!) and a few other completely unrelated ones on the right hand side.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
33
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:37 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:43 pm
Quite a good explanation of the FIA guidelines and how they pertain to 'the incident' as well.

He is good.

What amuses me about these vids is the background picture they use. Nice use of racing paraphernalia and motoring books in the background, alongside a Dishoom book(!) and a few other completely unrelated ones on the right hand side.
Yes, and he gave a good explanation of why they didn't feel the need to replace the front wing (which I wondered about at the time), because it was only minor damage to the tyre temperature sensor which was easily repairable with glue and tape. And by not changing the wing they could be confident that the balance of the car would remain as they wanted it.

User avatar
El Scorchio
59
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Marty_Y wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:58 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:43 pm
Quite a good explanation of the FIA guidelines and how they pertain to 'the incident' as well.

He is good.

What amuses me about these vids is the background picture they use. Nice use of racing paraphernalia and motoring books in the background, alongside a Dishoom book(!) and a few other completely unrelated ones on the right hand side.
Yes, and he gave a good explanation of why they didn't feel the need to replace the front wing (which I wondered about at the time), because it was only minor damage to the tyre temperature sensor which was easily repairable with glue and tape. And by not changing the wing they could be confident that the balance of the car would remain as they wanted it.
Agree- that was also very interesting and made a lot of sense, given they had the time to do it under the red flag. Absolute attention to the minutiae.

Also the part about them knowing that Leclerc was in a fuel deficit after his first stint which allowed them to make substantial seconds back. Something we would simply never know otherwise.