2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[darkpino]

One thing I mentioned but I think got lost in the off thread discussion in de RBR thread was the outcome of all off this.

I don’t know who’s at fault but certainly not only Max is at fault, I think at best it’s 50/50 but just like the penalty report says I’m also of the opinion that Lewis should have acted differently. But that a side --- happens and this was mostly a racing incident if you ask me. The problem though is the impact it has on the WDC. Max loses 25 points, a chassis (big money and its not certain they’ll get the setup right from day 1 with the new chassis), possibly an engine and thus another penalty later this year.

I know these are the rules and they agreed to it but it’s hard to swallow giving the situation RBR is in right now. The crash wasn’t 100% solely Max his fault but Lewis has loads, and I mean LOADS of advantage from it. And that’s in my opinion a really bad case

[Hoffman900]

If Lewis didn’t have his off at Imola and go full send at Baku, Max wouldn’t be in the points lead.

It goes both ways and it’s just how racing goes.

To eliminate the chance of car to car contact happening, you would have to change the series to a solo time trial, which isn’t what F1 or racing is.

I’m not following along on the Lewis missing the apex, he wasn’t even at it yet. Max wasn’t going to hit the apex either or stay in bounds at track exit. Put grass out there and Max would had to have given up the corner way earlier on.

My latter point is a huge problem with this track limits bs. Max (and anyone else) can rail around the outside with no regard to track out and make the claim “well I’m in front”. Well no kidding, because you’re taking a larger radius and if you drop a wheel over the curb, who cares?

I think if Lewis got a penalty, then Sergio should have as well for turning into Kimi as that was even more clear cut in terms of fault.

[darkpino]

If Lewis didn’t have his off at Imola and go full send at Baku, Max wouldn’t be in the points lead.

It goes both ways and it’s just how racing goes.

To eliminate the chance of car to car contact happening, you would have to change the series to a solo time trial, which isn’t what F1 or racing is.

I’m not following along on the Lewis missing the apex, he wasn’t even at it yet. Max wasn’t going to hit the apex either or stay in bounds at track exit. Put grass out there and Max would had to have given up the corner way earlier on.

My latter point is a huge problem with this track limits bs. Max (and anyone else) can rail around the outside with no regard to track out and make the claim “well I’m in front”. Well no kidding, because you’re taking a larger radius and if you drop a wheel over the curb, who cares?

I think if Lewis got a penalty, then Sergio should have as well for turning into Kimi.

I don’t really understand you I think. Both Imola and Baku Lewis was imo extremely lucky as at Imola he normally would have scored 0 points (after a mistake solely made by himself) and Baku the tyres of Lewis were even older than Max’s so it could have happened to him too.

Doesn’t matter, sometimes you’re just plain unlucky but I don’t understand what you’re saying than with your message

[Hoffman900]

Lewis was gaining on Max at Imola before he dropped a wheel on the wet tarmac under braking. Granted, Max did have a tire failure at Baku.

As you said, it’s sometimes down to blind luck. That’s racing. We’ve all seen the video of Mansell losing the championship via a tire failure.

Outside of all of that, my last point applies more to the situation.

With real track limits, Max would have lost the lead at Silverstone earlier and his not giving up Copse would have ended in disaster for him.

[dans79]

This time you do so by leaving out the context.

I specifically linked to the article so people can get as much context as they want.

Moreover, you say: "for example one of the nicer phone calls!"

So you make it appear that his other phone calls are much more annoying!

I wasn't referring to the specific call mention in that article. I believe it was maybe Alguersuari or Verne that have also mentioned unleasent calls.

This is from the article, what does it tell you when someone questions if they really want to answer a call from their boss?

"It wasn't always nice seeing his name pop up. 'Do I really want to answer it?' But you're like if I don't answer it now I'm just going to have to do it later. Sometimes you just have to listen and nod and suck it up."

this is Tsunoda from less than a month ago.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 56780.html

Yuki Tsunoda says evening call with Helmut Marko 'won't be fun'

Here is something from Vergne.

https://grandpx.news/vergne-recalls-dif ... der-marko/
The head of the Red Bull programme is Dr Helmut Marko, who Vergne said has a justifiable image as a very hard character.

“When I started in Formula 3, he called me and said ‘Ricciardo has shown you how to do it. If you don’t win the championship, you can leave’.”

Vergne also recalls another phone call with Marko.

“I was starting on pole and eventually I won that race, but Marko thought it was unacceptable that I had not also taken the fastest lap.

here is Kvyat about a call.

“So, you’re quite useless in the wet,” and just hung up on me!”

I don't need to make Marko look bad, he does it all on his own!

[Tizz]

Which facts?

The report from the stewards for instance. They have access to a lot more information than we here in the forum and have a lot more expertise than most of us.

Both wouldnt have reached the apex as i saw it over and over by now maybe if that would put their cars in reverse they could touch it why is it important to reach the apex when you are side by side ?

That means Max left Hamilton space but he choose not to use it.

[kenshi_blind]

The report from the stewards for instance. They have access to a lot more information than we here in the forum and have a lot more expertise than most of us.

Both wouldnt have reached the apex as i saw it over and over by now maybe if that would put their cars in reverse they could touch it why is it important to reach the apex when you are side by side ?

That means Max left Hamilton space but he choose not to use it.

How can you say he chose not to use it ? he had to open up the angle a little bit to take the corner because few seconds before that Max almost pinned him to the wall , besides Max had way more space on the outside to comfortably take the corner , he decided not to do so and expected Hamilton to yield unfortunately for him the Hamilton didn't ... in short it was a race incident Max could have easily avoided
As a side note there's not rule that stipulate that a driver must hit the apex , we often see the driver on the inside close the space to a point where the driver on the outside has to back out of it .. this is why it is often said that the one attempting to pass while being on the outside put himself at risk...
again Hamilton had earned the corner
edit : meant outside instead of inside

[yener]

Im still realky frustrated. I read somewhere that Lewis was going to give Max a call to make sure he is oke, but he also told he is not going to make any apoligizes. This makes it even worse!

This forum is also read by a lot of f1 staff and sometimes i hope that the drivers also visit just to read some opinions.
I would like to say to Max and the RBR team, dont pick up the phone and ignore Lewis. Even if you are 100+ ahead in the WC standing, dont accept them celebrating you, dont shake hands, dont spray champain and let them not spray on you.
Even if you win the WC dont let LH come to celebrate you. Please Max, show some dignity and character!

[Polarit]

Alonso's comments perfectly illustrate the rationale that an experienced driver has and one that I often think is lost with the obsession with racing lines and calculation's on who specifically had the corner.

Hamilton did well and got his car alongside Verstappen going into a turn. Regardless of lines, hitting the apex and corner angle the car was is there. It's a problem and being the car on the outside once it's there you have to adjust what you do.

Verstappen see's him when he goes to turn in, then adjusts, then turns fully into the corner with full knowledge Lewis is there. He might've hoped Lewis would brake harder but he took the risk knowing he was there. Hamilton at this point is pulling out of the move knowing they're going to collide but it's too late and because he pulls out it's why it's front left to rear right.

It's a racing incident and a poor judgement on Max's part to defend like that given the championship situation.

Much like for years Hamilton has treated Verstappen with a wide berth because he wasn't fighting that fight, Verstappen should've been wise enough to not fight a driver who has to win so strongly when he had such a lead.

Great race though....

“It is difficult from the outside,” said Alonso. “It looked quite close, Lewis had more than half a car alongside Max.

“So, in a way, Lewis could not disappear from the inside line, it’s not that you can vanish.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/alonso-h ... pen-clash/

[Just_a_fan]

. If you mean that is was a small contact, I beg to differ as Max' suspension was ripped apart on impact.

No it wasn't. The wheel rim appears to have been machined in the contact and the tyre deflated. All of the rest of the damage happened as the car headed towards and in to the barrier.

[f1jcw]

Im still realky frustrated. I read somewhere that Lewis was going to give Max a call to make sure he is oke, but he also told he is not going to make any apoligizes. This makes it even worse!

This forum is also read by a lot of f1 staff and sometimes i hope that the drivers also visit just to read some opinions.
I would like to say to Max and the RBR team, dont pick up the phone and ignore Lewis. Even if you are 100+ ahead in the WC standing, dont accept them celebrating you, dont shake hands, dont spray champain and let them not spray on you.
Even if you win the WC dont let LH come to celebrate you. Please Max, show some dignity and character!

But then if he follows the above it would show he still hasn’t grown up and is still a teenager and even worse that it is unable to look at his driving and recognise the part he had to play and recognise that he can not continue to force people off.

[Just_a_fan]

Im still realky frustrated. I read somewhere that Lewis was going to give Max a call to make sure he is oke, but he also told he is not going to make any apoligizes. This makes it even worse!

This forum is also read by a lot of f1 staff and sometimes i hope that the drivers also visit just to read some opinions.
I would like to say to Max and the RBR team, dont pick up the phone and ignore Lewis. Even if you are 100+ ahead in the WC standing, dont accept them celebrating you, dont shake hands, dont spray champain and let them not spray on you.
Even if you win the WC dont let LH come to celebrate you. Please Max, show some dignity and character!

I think you'll find that your suggestion wouldn't be showing dignity and character, it would be churlish and childish.

Dignity and character would be demonstrated by being magnanimous in victory. By accepting the congratulations with good grace, Max would show he is above juvenile responses.

[dans79]

Palmer says it's a racing incident.

[SiLo]

Im still realky frustrated. I read somewhere that Lewis was going to give Max a call to make sure he is oke, but he also told he is not going to make any apoligizes. This makes it even worse!

This forum is also read by a lot of f1 staff and sometimes i hope that the drivers also visit just to read some opinions.
I would like to say to Max and the RBR team, dont pick up the phone and ignore Lewis. Even if you are 100+ ahead in the WC standing, dont accept them celebrating you, dont shake hands, dont spray champain and let them not spray on you.
Even if you win the WC dont let LH come to celebrate you. Please Max, show some dignity and character!

[Hoffman900]

Palmer says it's a racing incident.

If Max can’t hit the apex because Lewis is there, then he’s as wrong as Lewis who is slightly wide off the apex.

This should have been the simple calculation in Max’s head to mitigate risk. The fact that he turned in knowing this, was a high risk decision, and it blew up in his face. What did Horner call this gamble at Barcelona? “Full Max Verstappen”.

Well, Max Verstappen just got “fulled Max Verstappened”.

In our racing, we got crashed out of the lead in a similar scenario, with us being in Lewis’s spot. Stewards threw the book at the driver who turned in on us. This isn’t an example of a video game or whatever else you guys imagine, but real life racing

Furthermore, if Max ended up wide at Copse, and got to keep the position, then that would have been a total farce.

As F1 has allowed time and time again, on the first lap especially, you can just rail around the outside, blow outside the track limits, and be fine. At any point in racing past, Max would have had to back out. As he would have earlier in the lap as well as Saturday.

This is partly why Indy Car is refreshing. The tracks actually have limits.