The damaged PU is currently in Sakura, to see if parts can still be used. It will be assessed whether a new 3rd PU will have to be used or whether it can be reasonably repaired.
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Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
The damaged PU is currently in Sakura, to see if parts can still be used. It will be assessed whether a new 3rd PU will have to be used or whether it can be reasonably repaired.
Yup I know, but to what extent are Honda allowed to repair or service certain parts? Can they fit a new crankshaft, camshafts or pistons for example?
No, they can't change any of those components. If any of those are damaged then Max has to take a new ICE!N21 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 17:50Yup I know, but to what extent are Honda allowed to repair or service certain parts? Can they fit a new crankshaft, camshafts or pistons for example?
I don't know exactly which parts can be repaired, but Yamamoto was hoping they could fix parts so they wouldn't have to use a new PU. So some parts are allowed to fix.N21 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 17:50Yup I know, but to what extent are Honda allowed to repair or service certain parts? Can they fit a new crankshaft, camshafts or pistons for example?
I suppose they could canabalise a previous engine to get some parts, but no idea which, if any, parts are usable from an engine that has done it's intended life. Not many I'd guess, but that is a complete guess.Wouter wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 18:22I don't know exactly which parts can be repaired, but Yamamoto was hoping they could fix parts so they wouldn't have to use a new PU. So some parts are allowed to fix.
Short of using GPS data, which requires knowing all sorts of other metrics (good luck), you can’t say for sure unless you compare it against its competition.ispano6 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 23:49Yeah but you didn't answer the question if whether or not the power was turned up or down. Your answer was about the car.Hoffman900 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2021, 15:04It was answering the question on why the Honda looked down relative to the Mercedes, compared to how it’s look previously.
Actually Yamamoto said they could be running the 1st PU or the 2nd in Hungary for Verstappen depending on the damage assessment. Hungary isn't a power-sensitive track so they won't need to run the engine hard, and Max has been winning races with the power turned down on many occasions. The strength of the Honda PU is it's reliability and longevity, something that their plating had allowed them even toward the end of last year, as they had expected. As long as the PU checks out and is anomaly free in FP, it can be race worthy. Since there obviously was no performance upgrades for PU2 the first PU can be run optimally and win races. If PU2 is unfit to race, they can always introduce PU3 and use it sparingly. And if PU4 has to be introduced, then they can fully send it with that one.bigblue wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 00:00I suppose they could canabalise a previous engine to get some parts, but no idea which, if any, parts are usable from an engine that has done it's intended life. Not many I'd guess, but that is a complete guess.
Maybe better asking in the Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software topic.Hoffman900 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 00:47Does anyone know or have an idea of how crankshaft thrust is controlled in these engines?
That’s where I’ve seen failures from hard shunts, including a counterweight into a bulkhead after the thrust plate shattered.
The other obvious place on these engines will be the block / cylinder due to being structural members. Worst case the block flexes or cam towers flex while everything is still spinning.
Same way it's controlled in most engines. Thrust bearings. The block itself is likely fine. All the stuff around it is not, we'll know by Monday. Us readers that is.Hoffman900 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 00:47Does anyone know or have an idea of how crankshaft thrust is controlled in these engines?
That’s where I’ve seen failures from hard shunts, including a counterweight into a bulkhead after the thrust plate shattered.
The other obvious place on these engines will be the block / cylinder due to being structural members. Worst case the block flexes or cam towers flex while everything is still spinning.
with regards to the block itself, I would think the larger concern would be if any of the auxiliary mounting points have been damaged.PhillipM wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 15:29I would imagine the block is probably okay, given they're pretty tough for taking loadings anyway, but it's whether it's nipped the crank or cams in the impact, and how much damage there is to any of the castings that attach the MGU-H, turbo pipes, loom, etc. Guess we'll find out but I wouldn't be surprised if they wrote it mainly off.
Vanity covers aren’t usually the issue in a shunt.godlameroso wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 17:53The engine and ancillaries are shrouded under a vanity cover for aero purposes and the crash didn't destroy the vanity cover.
Everything on the outside (piping, couplings, wires, sensors) can be replaced. I expect because of the high minimum weight and it being a stressed member of the chassis, the crankcase itself is quite sturdy and should be able to hold all the bearings in place.Hoffman900 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 18:25Vanity covers aren’t usually the issue in a shunt.godlameroso wrote: ↑23 Jul 2021, 17:53The engine and ancillaries are shrouded under a vanity cover for aero purposes and the crash didn't destroy the vanity cover.
It’s typically the sudden impact in a plane that usually stacks up the tolerances of things spinning very fast inside the engine that are usually the issue.
The example I gave above, the engine looked fine, except it was seized and had a bunch of axial crankshaft play. Dropping the pan told the whole story.