Formula E

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Tommy Cookers
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Re: Formula E

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DChemTech wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:50 am
Due to the overall higher well to wheel efficiency (and better options to capture pollutants in centralized elec. generation), even if the grid is mostly fossil, there will still be benefits.
governments in effect chose eg car catalysts etc as a way to give safe public air by capture etc of pollutants

and ...
isn't the big thing how best to use our existing and upcoming electricity sources to reduce global warming emissions

so - is EV use better than heating by heat pumps as a means of reducing said emissions ?

if not then the FE and EV thing may be counterproductive
heating being a much bigger energy user than is road transport ... and in competition for electricity

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Andres125sx
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Re: Formula E

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:35 am
DChemTech wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:02 am
There are several countries that have legislation stating "only electric".
... in some cases a top-down decision to focus on a single tech may be the most pragmatic option.
a boost to fanatics everywhere ?

most countries won't replace all fossil-fuel electricity with nominally carbon-free electricity by eg '2030-40'
or the forseeable
until then using such electricity to de-fossilise cars just means using more fossil fuel somewhere else
after then using such electricity to de-fossilise cars just means using more fossil fuel somewhere else
Demagogy Tommy, EV don´t need to replace all fossil fuel electricity to reduce emissions. I´m sure you know most countries in the world use some renewable energy, wich means EVs are producing less emissions than ICEs. Only in countries like India using most electricity from coal plants EVs pollute similar, but you don´t live in India and I´m sure you know this because I´ve repeated it and posted links ad nauseam

In any country from Europe, America or most in Asia and Oceania, any EVs reduce emissions from day 1

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Andres125sx
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Re: Formula E

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:09 pm
DChemTech wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:50 am
Due to the overall higher well to wheel efficiency (and better options to capture pollutants in centralized elec. generation), even if the grid is mostly fossil, there will still be benefits.
governments in effect chose eg car catalysts etc as a way to give safe public air by capture etc of pollutants

and ...
isn't the big thing how best to use our existing and upcoming electricity sources to reduce global warming emissions

so - is EV use better than heating by heat pumps as a means of reducing said emissions ?

if not then the FE and EV thing may be counterproductive
heating being a much bigger energy user than is road transport ... and in competition for electricity
Agree with this, but there´s an even better alternative to heat pumps, aerothermal energy wich reduces not only fossil fuels emissions but also electrical consumption significantly

Also, the way to reduce emissions from heating is not a switch to electric, but a huge improvement in thermal insulation.A switch to electric heating is also needed, heat pumps or aerothermal, but that´s only an aid, the way to go is reducing energy demands and that is done improving insulation. That is what is being done, at least in Europe

mzso
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Re: Formula E

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DChemTech wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:02 am
There are several countries that have legislation stating "only electric".

For the record, I am conceptually opposed to that because there are alternatives (yes, these include synfuel), and the challenge is picking the right option for the right niche. In a fully fair and rational market that should boil down to "picking the most economical option" (throwing away 85% energy when there is a more efficient alternatives for road cars would be economically prohibitive, and so would dragging tons of batteries into the air be).

But the market is not perfect; politics, emotions, and a lack of accountability for externalities come into play, anf there are infrastructure considerations that may make focus on a limited set of options desirable. Hence, in some cases a top-down decision to focus on a single tech may be the most pragmatic option.
Synfuel is more like a subset, than an alternative. Burning the hard produced fuel in 20-40% engines is not reasonable compared to a 70-90% fuel cell.
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:35 am
most countries won't replace all fossil-fuel electricity with nominally carbon-free electricity by eg '2030-40'
or the forseeable
until then using such electricity to de-fossilise cars just means using more fossil fuel somewhere else
"Somewhere else" is already a lot better than "straight into the air you breathe". Not just for health and environmental (filtering) reasons but also powerplants are a lot more efficient than cars.
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:09 pm
so - is EV use better than heating by heat pumps as a means of reducing said emissions ?
Why on earth wouldn't you do both if you can. If you can save at one place doesn't mean you shouldn't elsewhere. It's the opposite, you shouldn't waste anywhere.
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:09 pm
if not then the FE and EV thing may be counterproductive
heating being a much bigger energy user than is road transport ... and in competition for electricity
There's no competition. You produce as much electricity as you need.
But heating with electricity never made much sense, and there's no reason to start now.
Best way is to plainly insulate houses so they don't require heating ("passive house" standards and such). Instead or in parallel to that you can use solar thermal panels for heating. If you don't have those either than the fuel is best used to drive a heat pump as well as using it's heat for heating. ("waste" heat in case of fuel+fuel cell+heat pump)

mzso
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Re: Formula E

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:01 am
Agree with this, but there´s an even better alternative to heat pumps, aerothermal energy wich reduces not only fossil fuels emissions but also electrical consumption significantly
Ummm.... Did a quick search. And by the looks of it "aerothermal" is just a heat pump. An air-source heat pump.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Formula E

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mzso wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:54 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:01 am
Agree with this, but there´s an even better alternative to heat pumps, aerothermal energy wich reduces not only fossil fuels emissions but also electrical consumption significantly
Ummm.... Did a quick search. And by the looks of it "aerothermal" is just a heat pump. An air-source heat pump.
More or less, I´d define it as a reversible AA you can use both to heat up or cool down

mzso
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Re: Formula E

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:58 am
More or less, I´d define it as a reversible AA you can use both to heat up or cool down
Sure but you said it's a better alternative to heat pumps, but it IS a heat pump. A tad nonsensical, but no matter, moving on...

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Andres125sx
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Re: Formula E

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mzso wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:23 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:58 am
More or less, I´d define it as a reversible AA you can use both to heat up or cool down
Sure but you said it's a better alternative to heat pumps, but it IS a heat pump. A tad nonsensical, but no matter, moving on...
Technically yes, but the discussion was about saving energy, and aerothermal energy saves a lot compared to traditional heat pumps