2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Big Tea]

Oh dear, I think it is time for some autumn cleaning here. Time to clean out the Maxies, the Hamies and whateveries. And to pull some naughty people on their ears. Looking forward particular to that, just screaming:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4v7wddN-Wg

For now:

CLOOOSEEEEE THE DOOORSSSS

Well this guy is looking for a job now ( my second favourite speaker of all time)

[turbof1]

...because RedBull and their data seem to think so? They are the ones with all the data after all. I’m purely basing this off their suggestion that Ferrari has lost something.

These graphs suggest they did not lose anything:

Meanwhile, while by no any means conclusive, we have some data:
https://f1ingenerale.com/?attachment_id=97413
https://f1ingenerale.com/?attachment_id=97412
https://f1ingenerale.com/f1-power-unit- ... -qualcosa/

The graphs of course don't show everything and it is still possible Ferrari did infact lose something, but it does show the acceleration curve to be pretty consistent with previous races. I personally think the truth is that Red Bull and Mercedes were more competitive and Verstappen mistook that for Ferrari loosing speed.

[Juzh]

1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed

Nah, their advantage was in both. I pretty sure after australia where they were down on power, there was not a single track where they didn't top the top speed charts by some margin.

[MtthsMlw]

1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed

Nah, their advantage was in both. I pretty sure after australia where they were down on power, there was not a single track where they didn't top the top speed charts by some margin.

Sochi, Baku, France, Silverstone, Monza (slipstreams) and now Austin if you go from the offical speed trap data from Qualifying. Onboard telemetry might be different though, I guess you're referring to that.
Don't know about who had a slipstream obviously, makes it difficult.

[Juzh]

1.) acceleration phase, not necessarily top speed

Nah, their advantage was in both. I pretty sure after australia where they were down on power, there was not a single track where they didn't top the top speed charts by some margin.

Sochi, Baku, France, Silverstone, Monza (slipstreams) and now Austin if you go from the offical speed trap data from Qualifying. Onboard telemetry might be different though, I guess you're referring to that.
Don't know about who had a slipstream obviously, makes it difficult.

Yeah I'm only going off of onboard telemetry and only between top 3 team and only quali runs which actually mattered. And in those runs it's indesputable ferrari holds the upper hand, and has continued to do so even in USA.

Another thing, you mentioned sochi, but there was a very specific situation where ferrari was actually so far ahead they were able to shut off ERS assist way before the end of the straight and thus reduced their speeds to merc/RB levels, making it seem like they were even, but in reality they were miles ahead. See? Context is everything in this case.

Because why would one take something like a FI into account with their notoriously low DF desings, or maybe go the other dirrection and take williams into consideration with their drag car gallore.

[NathanOlder]

Just for the record, do we have a list of the time Ferrari were gaining on the straights at races since the summer break ? Quotes from team bosses ect. It would be interesting to see it is a list.

[falonso81]

The Q3 Ferrari runs were pretty messy, sector times all over the place. A lap well put together should have netted them pole still. One should not take belief on such a complex technical matter from an F1 driver who does not even drive for them. What i got for Austin is that Ferrari tried to set up the car for better race pace and they screwed up in the end. Even if they nailed the set up, Charles would have been miles away from the front runners pace with his old and tired engine. Vettel i believe had broken suspension before the start. Maybe he picked up damage on his way to the grid.

[NathanOlder]

The Q3 Ferrari runs were pretty messy, sector times all over the place. A lap well put together should have netted them pole still. One should not take belief on such a complex technical matter from an F1 driver who does not even drive for them. What i got for Austin is that Ferrari tried to set up the car for better race pace and they screwed up in the end. Even if they nailed the set up, Charles would have been miles away from the front runners pace with his old and tired engine. Vettel i believe had broken suspension before the start. Maybe he picked up damage on his way to the grid.

Im not sure about Vettels car being damaged, when you look at the lap times of Charles vs Lando in the opening 8 laps, ignoring the first 2 laps to let them settle and spread, there was only 1 lap where Chalres was over 1 sec a lap faster. A fair few were 5-8 tenths different and a couple 2-4 tenths.

Now Charles Ferrari was running the old PU but Binotto said was worth the difference between Seb and Charles in qualy (so not much at all)

Now see that Seb was able to sit within 1 second of Ricciardo for pretty much all of the 8 laps would suggest he was faster than Ricciardo but not fast enough to pass. So similar to Charles pace most probably, So I don't see how Seb had any problems until his car actually failed.

In my opinion the reason he was stuck in that position was simply down to lack of power, otherwise a car that was on average 8 tenths faster at that stage of the race would surely have blown by the Renault on the big straight.

[LM10]

The Q3 Ferrari runs were pretty messy, sector times all over the place. A lap well put together should have netted them pole still. One should not take belief on such a complex technical matter from an F1 driver who does not even drive for them. What i got for Austin is that Ferrari tried to set up the car for better race pace and they screwed up in the end. Even if they nailed the set up, Charles would have been miles away from the front runners pace with his old and tired engine. Vettel i believe had broken suspension before the start. Maybe he picked up damage on his way to the grid.

Im not sure about Vettels car being damaged, when you look at the lap times of Charles vs Lando in the opening 8 laps, ignoring the first 2 laps to let them settle and spread, there was only 1 lap where Chalres was over 1 sec a lap faster. A fair few were 5-8 tenths different and a couple 2-4 tenths.

Now Charles Ferrari was running the old PU but Binotto said was worth the difference between Seb and Charles in qualy (so not much at all)

Now see that Seb was able to sit within 1 second of Ricciardo for pretty much all of the 8 laps would suggest he was faster than Ricciardo but not fast enough to pass. So similar to Charles pace most probably, So I don't see how Seb had any problems until his car actually failed.

In my opinion the reason he was stuck in that position was simply down to lack of power, otherwise a car that was on average 8 tenths faster at that stage of the race would surely have blown by the Renault on the big straight.

The Ferraris had major grip problems. Post-race Vettel told that he had no idea what was going on with his car particularly in right corners. Else he would have not informed his team right at the beginning of the race that something was weird with the car, would he? Look at how many positions Vettel lost in the first lap alone. Do you really think that was due to less power?
Same goes for Leclerc grip-wise. He was lacking it especially in his first stint and it got better in the other two stints.

[NathanOlder]

They were certainly lacking grip. The power thing is still up in the air, what I was getting at more was I don't think sebs car was broken from the start.

Saying that I do remember him launching the car across the curb on lap 1. But that was the left hand side of the car.

[falonso81]

The driver himself radioed the team from lap 1 that his car had very poor handling. That alone makes me think that his suspension may have been damaged or compromised from the get go. All the other cars had no problem riding the curbs.

[search]

Now Charles Ferrari was running the old PU but Binotto said was worth the difference between Seb and Charles in qualy (so not much at all)

~two tenths in Qualifying is what I read, yeah, but you can't just translate that to race speed. The Spec 3 comes with major improvements in terms of fuel consumption, for example, and forms a "unity" with the Singapore aero update, which may not be the case for the Spec 2.

So the difference may have actually been larger for Leclerc in the race

[NathanOlder]

The driver himself radioed the team from lap 1 that his car had very poor handling. That alone makes me think that his suspension may have been damaged or compromised from the get go. All the other cars had no problem riding the curbs.

Yeah maybe that points to the crazy launch across the curb on lap 1 then .

[izzy]

The Ferraris had major grip problems. Post-race Vettel told that he had no idea what was going on with his car particularly in right corners. Else he would have not informed his team right at the beginning of the race that something was weird with the car, would he? Look at how many positions Vettel lost in the first lap alone. Do you really think that was due to less power?
Same goes for Leclerc grip-wise. He was lacking it especially in his first stint and it got better in the other two stints.

i ended up with the impression the team completely lost the setup, which is very complicated i think. This helped them have no tyre temperature at the start, and then if Seb hadn't got it all back by lap 8, and it can be a bit of a circle of doom as we know trying to heat up cold tyres, they'd be down on pressure running the car a bit lower as well

on the engine, Mattia said the Spec2 cost about 0.1, posssibly a bit optimistic but not a huge factor anyway

[Xwang]

Italian newspapers report that Vettel's suspension got damaged at the start when he passed near the box exit (outside normal trajectory) where the huge bump was not smoothed.
So probably the suspension geometry was wrong or loose and he had problems.
Then it completely broke at the 8th lap.