Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

[Pyrone89]

Schumacher’s greatness also comes from what he managed to do with the early Ferrari’s at the end of the 90’s.

[Just_a_fan]

Also, when comparing with Schumacher, Did Hamilton ever hit someone out of the race whilst he himself already crashed his own car, I don't think so. To me those kind of things really cost you on the greatness scale. That is not great.

Indeed so. Deliberately driving in to a competitor to take them out of the title, not once but twice. Deliberately "not spinning" at Monaco to prevent his rival getting pole. These are massive down marks in the greatness assessment.

Senna deliberately drove in to Prost to win the title but at least that was in retaliation for what he believed Prost had done to him previously. Not condoning it, but at least he was doing it in response to a previous action.

Not many other "greats" have done such things that I am aware of.

One thing you can say about Hamilton - he might not be error free over the years, but he's always been clean. Hard, yes, but fair. He's messed up and had brain fade moments e.g. Spa 2011 when he hit Kobayashi's Sauber, but he's never deliberately driven in to someone that I am aware of.

[Just_a_fan]

That's your way of thinking by assuming that the whole world is going to think like you. Lewis beat the team mates that he got and also got beaten and to say, that is why he is better and Schumacher's greatness is any lesser because he didn't have that kind of team mates, is outright amateurish. The fact remains that, Lewis couldn't comprehensively beat his champion team mates in every single season and got beaten. If he would have beaten them every single year and on every single aspect, he would have stood much taller. But the fact is, he didn't.

Soooo, Schumacher had no real opposition in his team mates, beat them all and is great. Hamilton has had real opposition in his team mates, beat them overall if not outright, and he's not great.

"Beating up sparring partners makes a great boxer, beating Tyson, Leonard and Frazier doesn't."

Riiiight...

[TAG]

I promised the moderation team early on to let this thread go because it would remain focused on the numbers. There's never going to be agreement on everything so let's try and keep the conversation on the math not the means. We get enough discord in the race threads.

[Jolle]

With 80 wins and having two feet between the door for his 6th WC, the question is not if but when records will be broken. If Mercedes builds a half decent car next year, 91 wins will be broken.

[Just_a_fan]

The question is "when will he retire?". If he goes at the end of 2020, then he could struggle to beat either record if RBR or Ferrari make inroads in to Mercedes's dominance. Can he get 12 more wins? Maybe. Can he win this year's and next year's titles. Trickier, I think.

I think he can finish with 6 titles and 90-92 wins. How many poles can he end up with? That's a nice little one.

[TheGkbrk]

The 91-record is very likely to be broken, during 2020 season.
For the WDC, it is hard to see anyone else than Hamilton taking it this season but next year, you never know. Even if Merc and Hamilton hold their position it will be 7, so it can be matched but breaking the 7 WDC record looks very hard with 2021 changes and Hamilton's age at the time.
Is it still possible though? Yes.
Feels weird as it always felt unbreakable.

[GPR-A]

That's your way of thinking by assuming that the whole world is going to think like you. Lewis beat the team mates that he got and also got beaten and to say, that is why he is better and Schumacher's greatness is any lesser because he didn't have that kind of team mates, is outright amateurish. The fact remains that, Lewis couldn't comprehensively beat his champion team mates in every single season and got beaten. If he would have beaten them every single year and on every single aspect, he would have stood much taller. But the fact is, he didn't.

Soooo, Schumacher had no real opposition in his team mates, beat them all and is great. Hamilton has had real opposition in his team mates, beat them overall if not outright, and he's not great.

"Beating up sparring partners makes a great boxer, beating Tyson, Leonard and Frazier doesn't."

Riiiight...

You reached the conclusion that you WANTED! It was you who started berating Schumacher in the first place, where this whole argument started. I never said Lewis is NOT GREAT or his GREATNESS IS ANY LESSER than that of Michael's. That is what happens when you get so engrossed in your own web of confusions.

[dans79]

You reached the conclusion that you WANTED!

And you have done the exact same thing!

[GPR-A]

You reached the conclusion that you WANTED!

And you have done the exact same thing!

Did you understand the point for which I said that? I hope not. He thought, I said, Lewis IS NOT GREAT, which I never did and he concluded THAT on his own. That is what I am talking about. It's important to follow the discussion when it is between two other people and not cherry pick.

I have copied his comment here for an easy reference!

Soooo, Schumacher had no real opposition in his team mates, beat them all and is great. Hamilton has had real opposition in his team mates, beat them overall if not outright, and he's not great.

Everyone can have their own opinion and everyone has the right to judge any driver's greatness based on their own terms. We need not have to agree with each other's barometer with which we assess the greatness. But berating one driver's greatness to hype up another, is downright absurd and childish to say the least. Is Hamilton a legend, YES HE IS. Is Michael a legend, YES HE IS. Is one greater than the other, rubbish. That, is my conclusion and you and everyone else can have their own too. Free society. But when someone writes nonsense about one driver who is admired by many on open public forums, just because he hates him, it would be contended.

[NathanOlder]

Couldn't Michael have beaten another champion as his team mate? Anybody's guess. Is that a yard stick to measure his talent, absolutely NO. Will that make him any lesser of a legend than Lewis, hell NO.

Hamilton has driven against and beaten 3 world champions so far...

Was level on points with Alonso, got beaten by Jenson in 2011 and also got beaten by Nico in 2016. Doesn't look very impressive. Does it? Even stevens at best. Wouldn't Michael have managed that? Might have bettered it.

Come on man, Hamilton beat Alonso. If Kimi was DQ'd at the end of the season, who would have been champion?

Lewis beat Button 2.1 over 3 seasons.

Lewis beat Nico 3.1 over 4 seasons.

You cant turn that around.

[turbof1]

Oh dear, how did I got here? Must have taken a wrong left at the race thread after a sharp right from the 2019 aero solutions topics. I'll be leaving now



No but seriously. Guys, I saw this turned out to be a Schumacher vs Hamilton "who is the greatest" topic. Usually it ends up with people vying for the "who can go the lowest" trophy. Remain respectful please. Both are all time legends anyhow concerning F1.

[dans79]

You reached the conclusion that you WANTED!

And you have done the exact same thing!

Did you understand the point for which I said that?

But berating one driver's greatness to hype up another, is downright absurd and childish to say the least.

No, you completely missed my point. You reached the conclusion that you wanted to reach, which was that he was degrading Schumacher to boost Hamilton. Hence your response above.

[Manoah2u]

Where did this topic turn into a children's 'no he did it!' playground?

[GPR-A]

And you have done the exact same thing!

Did you understand the point for which I said that?

But berating one driver's greatness to hype up another, is downright absurd and childish to say the least.

No, you completely missed my point. You reached the conclusion that you wanted to reach, which was that he was degrading Schumacher to boost Hamilton. Hence your response above.

You never made a point, you just barged into a conversation and representing another person's view that's all. You should go back and check how it all started to get an idea.

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