2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Quantum]

I'll take resources over bravado.

It's not bravado, jesus christ.

It really is.

I'll take every tangible resource available over an arbitrary made up requirement.

[Waz]

The resource restrictions are not nearly the game changer that some make it out to be.

Other than the amount of time actually spent in the tunnel or CFD, there are areas that are unrestricted, for example, cooling. This seems to apply to all cooling, not just engine, so includes brake ducts.

Everything about F1 is smoke and mirrors.

[Waz]

I'll take resources over bravado.

It's not bravado, jesus christ.

It really is.

I'll take every tangible resource available over an arbitrary made up requirement.

So you believe all engineers are equally skilled then and each team is putting the same quality of data and design through CFD and eventually the WT?

[Quantum]

So you believe all engineers are equally skilled then and each team is putting the same quality of data and design through CFD and eventually the WT?

What does skill have to do with confidence?
This is all wayyyyy off topic.

[kurtj]

The resource restrictions are not nearly the game changer that some make it out to be.

Other than the amount of time actually spent in the tunnel or CFD, there are areas that are unrestricted, for example, cooling. This seems to apply to all cooling, not just engine, so includes brake ducts.

Everything about F1 is smoke and mirrors.

That's knee jerk reaction to one team's genius. F1 is still a playground for engineering creativity and trying clamp down everything to make it spec series is really stupid. There are other spec series' available for those who want absolute equality in equipment.

[Mansell89]

Canada seemed to suit the car reasonably well last season- any reasons why not this year?

Obviously McLaren is even better now so they’ll go well but would Canada be better for Merc and than Barca was?

[OverheatedTurbo]

Tyre temp. management is the team’s number 1 priority right now and making that new rear suspension work. Let’s see what solutions they bring for Canada and subsequent races. Still, running the same diffuser since Race 1 is strange…are there no gains to be had in that area?

[Lasssept]

AMuS

Mercedes has been plagued by the same problem since 2022. The tyres get too hot, especially when there is still a lot of rubber on the tread. It has improved this year, but the engineers still do not have full control over it.

In Barcelona, the tyres overheated on the left side, front and rear. The tyre only falls back into the window when enough rubber has been scrubbed off. Compared to the outliers in Jeddah and Imola, Barcelona was actually a small step forward. No other track stresses the tires to such an extent, especially with asphalt temperatures of 50 degrees. The engineers are still feverishly searching for a solution.

Initially, the new rear axle [upgrade], which made its debut in Imola, was suspected. However, it was removed again for Monaco and Barcelona. Wolff suspects: “It looks as if this problem is inherent to the car.”

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... barcelona/

[Matt2725]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsXTlMIWYAA ... name=large

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

[Farnborough]

AMuS

Mercedes has been plagued by the same problem since 2022. The tyres get too hot, especially when there is still a lot of rubber on the tread. It has improved this year, but the engineers still do not have full control over it.

In Barcelona, the tyres overheated on the left side, front and rear. The tyre only falls back into the window when enough rubber has been scrubbed off. Compared to the outliers in Jeddah and Imola, Barcelona was actually a small step forward. No other track stresses the tires to such an extent, especially with asphalt temperatures of 50 degrees. The engineers are still feverishly searching for a solution.

Initially, the new rear axle [upgrade], which made its debut in Imola, was suspected. However, it was removed again for Monaco and Barcelona. Wolff suspects: “It looks as if this problem is inherent to the car.”

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... barcelona/

"]It looks as if this problem is inherent to the car" a "statement of the bleedin-obvious" if ever there was one for reference, this view is embedded within the annals of UK humour as comment about someone saying something so plainly obvious to every observer.

A big difference is the McL rear structure incorporating suspension etc ... unique to McLaren (no comparative usage) but appears to have absolutely nailed it in design and application. I believe its origins (conceptual layout) are from one J Key Esq that leads to this chassis layout, much vilified on their team thread, knows quite a bit about suspension theory along with advancing concepts in this field.

"The engineers feverishly searching for solutions" a funny statement too, they are supposed to be qualified in this subject, but instead appear completely restricted toward lucid appreciation of what may ultimately point their way out of this. There's no guarantee they'll get a clearer picture for next year either.

[Waz]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsXTlMIWYAA ... name=large

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

You assume the engineer overseeing the running of the power unit knows anything about cooling design. Or is privy to the parts before assembly.

McLaren won't be giving away such an advantage on cooling. Some of them, were there when HPP shafted them for 2014 with deliberately not updating the cooling data and leading to McLaren designing a boat in comparison.

[Hammerfist]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsXTlMIWYAA ... name=large

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

Unbelievable. So merc has fallen so far they dont even integrate their pu better than anyone anymore. Thanks for the reply.

[dialtone]

Didn’t the cooling company that Mercedes was working with end up in bankruptcy? Reaction Engine?

I think I read somewhere that they have only enough cooling parts left to end the 2025 and even then, since they don’t own the IP of the cooling, they are dealing with spares and putting pieces together.

If MCL really has their own cooling, it would partially explain why one team is breaking down and the other isn’t.

[ringo]

I think the failures could be from riding too low and getting impacts. Just a guess.

As for their inherent problem, I think they need to also look at how they collect raw data, that is how their measure their tyre temperatures. This is a fundamental thing that is easily overlooked. The darn temperature sensors could simply be aimed incorrectly, or too far way, or out of calibration, or more are needed to be measuring other areas.

[Matt2725]

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

You assume the engineer overseeing the running of the power unit knows anything about cooling design. Or is privy to the parts before assembly.

McLaren won't be giving away such an advantage on cooling. Some of them, were there when HPP shafted them for 2014 with deliberately not updating the cooling data and leading to McLaren designing a boat in comparison.

Considering the seamless integration required with the PU, the engineers overseeing the PU for McLaren I would expect would have intimate knowledge regarding the cooling setup for the unit.

Just for parameter monitoring and tuning purposes alone they'd need to know how the PU is being cooled and in what manner.