Ferrari's tyre management

[Hush]

It is well known that some cars are easier on their tyres than others. You may not want to believe it, but it's fact. Now can we get back to technical matters?

Yes; but nothing has proven this to be the case with Ferrari

Silverstone did, when Alonso lapped faster than Vettel, who had just made his stop, on old tyres. He was setting fastest laps on old tyres as a matter of fact.

If Ferrari, especially Alonso, can run at the front with their current package it will be mighty difficult to undercut them due to the pace they have later in the stints.

[HampusA]

[...]

[HampusA]

Silverstone did, when Alonso lapped faster than Vettel, who had just made his stop, on old tyres. He was setting fastest laps on old tyres as a matter of fact.

If Ferrari, especially Alonso, can run at the front with their current package it will be mighty difficult to undercut them due to the pace they have later in the stints.

You seem to forget that Alonso was lapping horribly slow in the beginning?
So slow that Hamilton catched up and passed him.

This is what i´m saying by moving the operating window forward compared to a team that instantly gets the temps up, like RBR. Monaco after the red flag is a great example.

[Mandrake]

Starting slower into the stint due to not getting the temperature up quickly enough will not lead to less tire wear. The tires will wear equally if not more during those stages. It's not like the tires can operate for 10 laps in the proper temperature window, they last 10 laps before the wear causes them to become much slower (hence we didn't see the dropoff in Monaco because the surface is very very smooth).

Ferrari can push longer with its tires as seen in Silverstone as well as in Germany and this is due to the fact that the car causes less wear on the tires!

[Pierce89]

Silverstone did, when Alonso lapped faster than Vettel, who had just made his stop, on old tyres. He was setting fastest laps on old tyres as a matter of fact.

If Ferrari, especially Alonso, can run at the front with their current package it will be mighty difficult to undercut them due to the pace they have later in the stints.

You seem to forget that Alonso was lapping horribly slow in the beginning?
So slow that Hamilton catched up and passed him.

This is what i´m saying by moving the operating window forward compared to a team that instantly gets the temps up, like RBR. Monaco after the red flag is a great example.

only in lower temps do Ferrari have warm up problems. In Hungary NO ONE will warm up issues.
But, When you say all Ferrari does is move the window back two laps because they're slow to warm up, you're ignoring the fact that In those first two laps, they still have to set semi competitive laps. They're better tyre wear nearly jumped a faster Hami. Yes he got back by because Alonso tyres weren't ready yet, but without they're better wear rate Ferrari would never have had that chance at all.

[flyboy2160]

does it appear to anyone else that the 150 is now running more rake than earlier in the year? to me it now looks closer to the red bull rake than to the 'low rake' mercedes. or am i drinking too much beer while watching? or maybe not enough?

[HampusA]

Starting slower into the stint due to not getting the temperature up quickly enough will not lead to less tire wear. The tires will wear equally if not more during those stages. It's not like the tires can operate for 10 laps in the proper temperature window, they last 10 laps before the wear causes them to become much slower (hence we didn't see the dropoff in Monaco because the surface is very very smooth).

Ferrari can push longer with its tires as seen in Silverstone as well as in Germany and this is due to the fact that the car causes less wear on the tires!

I have not said that. Imagine the Trio has a window of 15 laps before they have to pit.
If Ferrari needs to laps for the tires to start working they will then pit on lap 17 compared to RBR or Mclaren who get the temp up on lap 1 and pit on lap 15.

only in lower temps do Ferrari have warm up problems. In Hungary NO ONE will warm up issues.
But, When you say all Ferrari does is move the window back two laps because they're slow to warm up, you're ignoring the fact that In those first two laps, they still have to set semi competitive laps. They're better tyre wear nearly jumped a faster Hami. Yes he got back by because Alonso tyres weren't ready yet, but without they're better wear rate Ferrari would never have had that chance at all.

This doesn´t make any sense. It doesn´t matter what temp it is, if the Ferrari is kinder on the tires it should be kinder everywhere.

There is no proof that Ferrari looks after it´s tires better then anyone else.
"semi competitive laps" I don´t even know what you mean by that.
They can´t get the temps up right away and have can´t do anything about it except running 1-2 laps until they are up to temperature.

Ferrari does not stop less then the two other teams.
Ferrari does not go longer on their stints by any margin like 5 laps.
Ferrari just has trouble getting the temps up.

You will see in Hungary that they will have less of a problem getting the temps up but you will also see that they will pit when everyone else do and have the same wear on the tires as the other in the Trio.

[aral]

It is well known that some cars are easier on their tyres than others. You may not want to believe it, but it's fact. Now can we get back to technical matters?

Please provide this "fact" you speak of. I would sure like to see some tire numbers from the Top Trio that supports your claim.

Oh and btw, this IS technical. We are discussing the tires on the Ferrari F150.
And how the Ferrari works it´s tires.

Oh, come on! If you do not know by now that some cars are easier on their tyres than others, you cannot have been a follower of motor sport for very long. And why are you saying such things as Alonsos tyres taking longer to heat up, when this is a prime example of the ferrari being easier on its tyres?

[HampusA]

No, you come on. You say stuff like facts yet you have nothing to back it up.

Just because the Ferrari takes longer to get the temps up it does not mean it´s kinder on it´s tires.
It´s not about how fast you get the temp up, it´s about how the tires are being worked when they are up to temp.

[aral]

No, you come on. You say stuff like facts yet you have nothing to back it up.

Just because the Ferrari takes longer to get the temps up it does not mean it´s kinder on it´s tires.
It´s not about how fast you get the temp up, it´s about how the tires are being worked when they are up to temp.

You seem to answer all your own arguments.
You should read other sites. Whitmarsh admits that the Mclarens will overheat their tyres in Hungary, and that Ferrari won't. If you don't want to believe a team principal, that's OK with me. I know who and what I believe.

[HampusA]

So i´m supposed to listen to Whitmarsh on how Ferrari does with it´s tires?
the closest he got to Ferrari was by documents in the spy-affair.

I´d rather listen to Pirelli that actually has the numbers and they haven´t said anything about Ferrari being kinder on it´s tires.
If i´m not mistaken, after the pre-season testing Pirelli stated that the Trio was more or less equal in tire wear. That could have been last year and Bridgestone though.

Again, there is nothing on track, in reality that says Ferrari´s tires last longer then the rest of the Trio.
If they really was so much kinder you would see them in cold conditions doing almost a full race on one set of tires or atleast stopping one time less then RBR or Mclaren.
Yet you haven´t because it´s not true. They just move the operating window forward 1-2 laps due to the lack of heating the tires up quickly.

[marcush.]

I could imagine this idea stems from Ferrari preferring the softer compounds and seemed to struggle more with the harder ones?

[HampusA]

Yea it seems the car works best with as sticky tires as possible.
Haven´t seen anything to support that they can run longer then anyone else with them though.

[ell66]

No, you come on. You say stuff like facts yet you have nothing to back it up.

Just because the Ferrari takes longer to get the temps up it does not mean it´s kinder on it´s tires.
It´s not about how fast you get the temp up, it´s about how the tires are being worked when they are up to temp.

it has nothing to do with how long they take to get upto temp, useyour common sense and think back to china, malaysia, turkey and valencia. Alonso was he only one keeping his tyres as well as vettel whist running in traffic and racing.

[HampusA]

Common sense? Common sense would tell me that both Ferraris can run competitive on longer runs then RBR and Mclaren.
Common sense tells me they can´t. Common sense tells me they just have trouble getting temps up and effectively move the lifetime of the tire 1-2 laps ahead.

When they go one stop less then Macca or RBR then we can talk about Ferrari being kinder on it´s tires allowing them to go longer on one set of tires then the rest.

If we see this at Hungary, a super hot track with the soft compounds Pirelli will bring then i take my hat of and say i´m humbly apologizing.
But right now i haven´t seen anything like it.