Visibility in F1 cars

[Traction]

It wont hurt to improve the mirrors but this whole topic has come about because of Seb and Hammi.

Seb damn well seen Button in the mirror and was watching him the whole time if you look at the start from Seb's incar. He then proceeded with his signature move to push Button off the track.

Hammi just plain wasn't looking in his mirrors just like SPA with Koby.
Whats the point of upgrading them just for Hammi if he doesn't use them.

To me Seb clearly lied about not seeing Button, and Hammi didn't see Massa cause he wasn't looking for him.

Compare this to Schumi in Italy with Hammi. MS can use these mirrors quite well and with the so called vibration on the fastest track on the calendar. Schumi was using his mirrors the whole time and knew exactly where his opponent was.

A fairly big difference in my opinion between the 3 mentioned drivers, but like I said, it wont hurt to still improve the mirrors.

How many times in his career has SV moved over on someone to defend a position enabling it to be called 'his signature move'?

[izybluffen]

How many times in his career has SV moved over on someone to defend a position enabling it to be called 'his signature move'?

More than 5 with the two worst being Hockenheim 2010 how he nearly pushed Alonso into the wall and Suzuka 2011 pushing Button off the track.
I say this because everytime he fears losing from pole at the start he swerves into people.
There's a big difference between squeezing someone and tyring to push them off the track or into walls.

[Traction]

How many times in his career has SV moved over on someone to defend a position enabling it to be called 'his signature move'?

More than 5 with the two worst being Hockenheim 2010 how he nearly pushed Alonso into the wall and Suzuka 2011 pushing Button off the track.
I say this because everytime he fears losing from pole at the start he swerves into people.
There's a big difference between squeezing someone and tyring to push them off the track or into walls.

I would hardly call two occasions a signature move and there has been no swerving in either cases, both were gradual moves to squeeze the other drive out of space....not sure I can remember him defending pole position like that before. Anyone else have any examples.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I think it's going to be very difficult to improve forward visibility without putting the drivers head in a dangerous position. I'm not talking about debri, so forget the Massa & Srutees accidents, they would still happen as you say. I'm talking about the car rolling over. If you sit the driver up more you will probably have to make the roll hoop taller. One option might be to drop the whole front of the car down, this is happening to some extent next year. Again you have to consider a roll, the roll hoop works in tandem with the front end of the safety cell to make sure the drivers head doesn't come in to contact with the track during a roll.

Forward visibility changes of the last few years are more to do with the amount of body work infront of the driver increasing, cars have become longer, wings have become bigger, etc. rather than drivers sitting lower.

The front wings have to be reduced in width. If you look at Webber in Valencia last year, and Schumacher in singapore this year, they both got airbourne after front corner to rear corner contact. This is mostly caused by the fact a front wheel contacting a rear wheel at speed in this fashion will always flick the car behind in to the air. The flat underbody then turns in to a giant sail generating lift. What doesn't help is the fact the wide front wings are in the way and get destroyed in the process. If you think back to Kubica's impact in Canada it was very similar, the difference was his front wing didn't immediatly fall off, so he still had enough front downforce to prevent the car from getting completely airbourne and flipping over.

[i70q7m7ghw]

How many times in his career has SV moved over on someone to defend a position enabling it to be called 'his signature move'?

More than 5 with the two worst being Hockenheim 2010 how he nearly pushed Alonso into the wall and Suzuka 2011 pushing Button off the track.
I say this because everytime he fears losing from pole at the start he swerves into people.
There's a big difference between squeezing someone and tyring to push them off the track or into walls.

I would hardly call two occasions a signature move and there has been no swerving in either cases, both were gradual moves to squeeze the other drive out of space....not sure I can remember him defending pole position like that before. Anyone else have any examples.

He claimed he didn't know Jenson was there. Forget about the fact he was looking in his mirrors for the moment, if he didn't think Jenson was there why would he even bother moving? the racing line was the other side of the track. Seb new Jenson was there. Perhaps the problem is the mirrors aren't big enough to allow a driver to judge depth effectively?

[raymondu999]

To be fair you'd cover the inside to prevent any do-or-die out braking moves into turn 1. He mugged Webber into Turn 1 Sepang 2010; and maybe he just doesn't want the same done to him.

The depth question is interesting. You mean that they can't correctly judge the distance, yes?

[Traction]

Diesel...oh you better bet that seb knew exactly where Button was no disagreement there...perhaps the depth of vision on the mirrors is a contributing factor but I doubt it. These guys know the cars and where every inch of the car is in relation to their bodies...when they make a mistake its exactly that a mistake...a miscalculation as it were...unless they were just not looking...

[Traction]

To be fair you'd cover the inside to prevent any do-or-die out braking moves into turn 1. He mugged Webber into Turn 1 Sepang 2010; and maybe he just doesn't want the same done to him.

The depth question is interesting. You mean that they can't correctly judge the distance, yes?

I`m not sure if I would agree with that..as per post below

[CMSMJ1]

In short fewer situations should arise. Massa would still have been hit in the face, and John Surtees, tragically, would still no be with us.

T

Henry, please.

The unlucky sod.

It is not a bad idea by WB - better visibility is a great idea.

[Mr Alcatraz]

I also like WB's idea. The rear facing camera is also worth consideration, although if it is adopted it should be on a default resolution as to not give the drivers anymore onboard controls to manipulate. IMO.

[SiLo]

I think the protection around the head has stopped any vision out of the side of the cockpit that there may have been, and with the front wings being so much bigger and lower, I think it's a lot harder to see. We rarely had front wings and endplates disappearing all over the place. So maybe bring the wings back up, make them smaller, standardise some larger mirrors and put them in the best position possible.

[Raptor22]

Technology can solve this problem.
two rearwardlooking camera's projecting a moving image to a HUD built into the drivers visor. the pictures can be projected to the drivers peripheral vision so he only sees it when he ponts his eyes left or right.

Forward vision will only e improved if the nose heightof the car is limited. I don;t think the boxed tub is helping matters much either...

[Giblet]

Yes right,my mistake, Henry Surtees. Thank you. Late nights and early mornings.

The LCD/HUD tech is a neat idea, if it is unobtrusive and doesn't replace mirrors. Even simple lights in the peripheral that tell you a car is along side. One for left, one for right.

If a light was on saying a car was on your left, and you pushed him off the track anyway, it would be easy to penalize.

[Fil]

I'm not sure LCD/HUD tech will replace physical mirrors completely in F1, not with the harsh environment that an F1 car deals with..

Imagine the LCD failing through vibrations etc. Much more dangerous than just relying on vibrating blobs of colour in their mirrors today..

[Lycoming]

maybe a lights system is a good idea, but not the LCDs, thats getting a bit... much. as for the front wing, I think its more a matter of the driver needs to sit higher up in the car, not necessarily just raise the wing. Im not sure that the high wing would improve visibility that much.