Cryo-KERS and MGU-Cold

[PlatinumZealot]

Most of the load for the cryo system is heat that leaks in through the insulation. The superconducting motor generates very little heat, is much more compact and lightweight.

I think NASA has a device that they use to measure the curvature in space-time on one of their satellites. This gizmo has a superconducting ball that is rotating on its own axis. At that size and distance from earth the curves in space-time affect the magnetic field orientation of the superconducting ball. It shifts out of phase to the rotating axis of the ball when space-time curves. This change in field orientation is measured and they apply a bunch of equations to calculate the space-time gradient or whatever physicists call it. It is very interesting. The ball is in a vacuum but I don't remember what they use to keep it at superconducting temperatures. It was not a large device though.

[flynfrog]

Gravity Probe B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Probe_B

It also contains the some of the most precise things man has ever machined.

[gruntguru]

Most of the load for the cryo system is heat that leaks in through the insulation. The superconducting motor generates very little heat, is much more compact and lightweight.

I think NASA has a device that they use to measure the curvature in space-time on one of their satellites. This gizmo has a superconducting ball that is rotating on its own axis. At that size and distance from earth the curves in space-time affect the magnetic field orientation of the superconducting ball. It shifts out of phase to the rotating axis of the ball when space-time curves. This change in field orientation is measured and they apply a bunch of equations to calculate the space-time gradient or whatever physicists call it. It is very interesting. The ball is in a vacuum but I don't remember what they use to keep it at superconducting temperatures. It was not a large device though.

It is much easier to keep things cold in space (unless it is a "thing" that generates a lot of heat)

[PlatinumZealot]

Gravity Probe B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Probe_B

It also contains the some of the most precise things man has ever machined.

Ahh. thanks.

A giant jar of liquid helium is used to cool it then...

I think some calculations can be used to estimate the heat generation rate due to losses in the KERS conductors and what is due to the bearing heat. Then engineer a way to isolate bearing heat from electrical heat then to calculate what size jar of liquid helium is needed to last 3 hours to supercool the conductors. The trick here is that the liquid helium has to cool the core superconducting before any current is applied... This way the thermal inertia is much smaller during start up.

[PlatinumZealot]

Most of the load for the cryo system is heat that leaks in through the insulation. The superconducting motor generates very little heat, is much more compact and lightweight.

I think NASA has a device that they use to measure the curvature in space-time on one of their satellites. This gizmo has a superconducting ball that is rotating on its own axis. At that size and distance from earth the curves in space-time affect the magnetic field orientation of the superconducting ball. It shifts out of phase to the rotating axis of the ball when space-time curves. This change in field orientation is measured and they apply a bunch of equations to calculate the space-time gradient or whatever physicists call it. It is very interesting. The ball is in a vacuum but I don't remember what they use to keep it at superconducting temperatures. It was not a large device though.

It is much easier to keep things cold in space (unless it is a "thing" that generates a lot of heat)

A vacuum around the conductors is definite. The question is can it be engineered into a small package?

A vacuum chamber is used to isolate coils in particle accelerators and fusion reactors. If the F1 the gurus had a try at it... it might be very feasible to package..

[graham.reeds]

Also helium is a finite resource.

Hydrogen is a lot more readily available.

[gruntguru]

A small quantity of LN2 used as a total-loss coolant would be sufficient to cryo-cool two superconducting MGUs over race distance.

Not sure whether the rules would permit this though, as this would be equivalent to additional energy stored on board (even though the net effect is energy removal through evaporative cooling).

[Just_a_fan]

Also helium is a finite resource.

Hydrogen is a lot more readily available.

And a lot more explosive too...

[riff_raff]

It is much easier to keep things cold in space (unless it is a "thing" that generates a lot of heat)

While the ambient temperature in deep space is a couple hundred degF below zero, it is actually quite difficult to dissipate waste heat in space, since there is a near perfect vacuum. Another problem in a space environment is heating of some types of surfaces exposed to solar radiation.

LN2 is not the best choice for use as a coolant, since it tends to locally boil from the heating produced when in contact with a higher temp surface such as an electrical conductor.

[gruntguru]

In a superconducting motor, the refrigerant does not come in contact with any significant heat sources. As I said in a previous post the primary source is heat leakage from the environment across the insulation.

LN2 has many properties that make it suitable. THE BP is about right for readily available superconducting materials, the latent heat of evaporation is quite high so a small quantity will remove a significant amount of heat and the vapour (Nitrogen) is inert and harmless - the atmosphere is 78% N2.

The only way to dissipate heat in space is radiation. You need high emissivity surfaces pointing towards a dark part of the universe, and in good thermal contact with the parts you are trying to cool. Surfaces pointing towards radiant objects like the sun should be reflective and insulated from the rest of the vehicle (especially the parts you want to keep cool).

[wuzak]

A small quantity of LN2 used as a total-loss coolant would be sufficient to cryo-cool two superconducting MGUs over race distance.

Not sure whether the rules would permit this though, as this would be equivalent to additional energy stored on board (even though the net effect is energy removal through evaporative cooling).

No phase change is allowed in cooling mediums.

[flynfrog]

sorta related on a slow day. My friends Electric truck running the Colorado Mile. He sprays liquid CO2 into the motors to keep them cool.

[PlatinumZealot]

A small quantity of LN2 used as a total-loss coolant would be sufficient to cryo-cool two superconducting MGUs over race distance.

Not sure whether the rules would permit this though, as this would be equivalent to additional energy stored on board (even though the net effect is energy removal through evaporative cooling).

No phase change is allowed in cooling mediums.

Really... Hmm. So stuck with refridgerant that stays a vapour.

[riff_raff]

The benefits in terms of conversion efficiency, weight, and package size provided by using cryo-cooled superconducting materials for the rotor of an F1 MGU device are nowhere worth the added complexity. Copper stator windings and neodymium PM rotor materials using oil or water cooling still provide satisfactory performance under the current regulations.

It would be a better use of resources to improve capabilities of the power electronics and battery systems. More to be gained there in terms of weight and efficiency.

[PlatinumZealot]

I get you. Reduce losses further still and Improve the heat resistance so to speak.